ELECTIONS '98
COMMENTARY
SPECIALS
INTERVIEWS
CAPITAL BUZZ
REDIFF POLL
DEAR REDIFF
THE STATES
YEH HAI INDIA!
ARCHIVES

The Rediff Interview/Shabir Shah

'If a foreign power wishes to intervene and help solve the Kashmir problem, it is welcome'

When Shabir Ahmad Shah, one of the most powerful separatist leaders in Jammu and Kashmir, stepped out of prison, Kashmiris poured out onto the streets in an emotional rush. They gave him a welcome fit for a king. They pledged unending support to him. And, mainly in acknowledgement of his long years in captivity, they called him Kashmir's Nelson Mandela.

That was nearly four years ago. Before Shah joined the All Party Hurriyat Conference to put up a common platform for his fight against Hindustan, his fight for azaadi (freedom). Much before his politics saw an eclipse and alienation in the APHC, and he was expelled from the unruly coalition.

Now Shah is back. With an outfit of his own, the Jammu and Kashmir Democratic Freedom Party, and an offer of unconditional talk with India -- the first of its kind from a separatist leader of his prominence. Many political observers view this as a move to reclaim his eclipsed popularity. In a recent interview with Chindu Sreedharan in Srinagar, Shah, speaking Urdu in the measured tone of a mullah, explained the compulsions behind his action.

What prompted you to start a party at this juncture?

I want the Kashmir struggle to be a united one. We are fighting for freedom and I feel it should be from one platform, under one leader. I tried my level best to bring about this when I was in jail. After I was released, I met with the leaders of all parties and tried to convince them of this. Our struggle was for independence. We were fighting India the same way India fought the Britishers. We needed to be one.

When I joined the Hurriyat Conference, I had only one ambition -- the unification of all forces. I wanted the Hurriyat to put up a platform where the Kashmiris could stand together to fight India. I wanted the fight to spread down and unify even the grassroots. But I found it was not happening. The time was ripe, but the Hurriyat had its own agenda. So I had to look at other options.

Why do you say the time is ripe?

In 1988, our fighters brought the Kashmir issue out of the grave. They took it up, right up to the high heavens. The world came to know that Kashmir in India is having problems.

Now, because of the BJP government's nuclear tests, Pakistan was forced to follow suit. It was a reaction from Pakistan that was necessary to defend its existence. The issue is again on the international agenda. The world has come to know how undemocratically India is treating us. The issue has now come up in Geneva, at the P-5 and G-8 meetings. It will also figure in the round table conference in Japan. Our party believes in dialogue. And this is the best time for it.

In a way Ataljisahab has done Kashmiris a favour by conducting the tests. It has given the Kashmir problem a new avenue to seek a solution. Now we are trying to gather support from intellectuals and thinkers of India, Pakistan and Europe. Through seminars and conferences we are trying to fight the wrong impression that the Hindustani government has spread about Kashmir and Kashmiris. We are trying to tell the world that Kashmiris are peace loving people. We know that this a political issue, and what we want is a political solution.

What have you done to achieve this? What exactly is this solution you are looking for?

Talks. We have offered dialogue. But our minister today, Mr Advanisahab refused us. He said he would not talk to any Kashmiri leader. Instead, he would strike and wrest back the control of Azad Kashmir. He said he would send more troops to Kashmir and crush the movement. These were not the correct thing to say. Might is never right. If L K Advanisahab is arrogant about his atomic bombs and his missiles and his tanks, and on the basis of these if he thinks he can build a vote bank in Kashmir, then I can say only one thing: L K Advanisahab cannot be a true Hindustani. If he had been a true Hindustani, if he had been a real patriot, then he should have seized the opportunity for talks and made a new beginning.

Let Hindustan understand the problem first. Mr Vajpayee proposed in Parliament that India was ready for dialogue about Kashmir, and the foreign ministry of Pakistan also agreed to it -- this is the right move.

In this affair, the Kashmiris should play a bigger role than India and Pakistan. Because 100,000 of our youth have been martyred. We are the people who have suffered. Even today there's tremendous pressure here. Innocent people are being killed. This is a disturbed area. A soldier can kill anybody. He can burn down anybody's house. He can rape too. But the JKDFP has always maintained it would like to see the people of both Hindustan and Pakistan happy. If the German wall was broken down, if all the countries in Europe have come under the EU, can't India and Pakistan co-exist as brothers?

Yes. They can. But only when the Kashmir problem is solved. They can prosper. But today they would rather spend millions and billions on atomic bombs. They are spending millions and trillions on nuclear weapons, taking loans from the IMF and spending it on defence -- when the foundation of the trouble is Kashmir! Both the nations are sitting on bombs. The right way is that the Kashmiris should come up a solution that is acceptable to both the countries and would provide respect and dignity to us.

Do you have a solution at hand?

Yes, we definitely have one. But if I say it now there will be at the most a debate on your Internet and in the media -- nothing more. I will wait.

We will not let a repeat of Nagasaki or Hiroshima. We believe in peace. Wherever there are nuclear weapons in the world, we want to destroy them completely. Such weapons will not bring victory for either India or Pakistan. If there is a nuclear war, both India and Pakistan will be losers. At least 50 to 60 lakh (5 to 6 million) people will die in each country. The core issue is Kashmir, and so they should involve Kashmiris in the talks. Kashmiris want to play the role of bridge between India and Pakistan.

Does this mean that you believe the fight of the militants is futile?

We never believed in the gun culture. History says it can't be the ultimate solution. It can be part of a struggle, but not the end. And this is not the 1988 nafrat movement (war of hate). This war has been on since 1947, since Partition. There have been three wars on the issue. But we always wanted a permanent political solution.

The reason our young real freedom fighters took up the gun was to catch the world attention. Whenever they talked about political solutions they were greeted by guns and abuses.

'When we talk of azaadi we include the Pandits too'