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The Rediff Interview/Shabir Shah

'When we talk of azaadi we include the Pandits too'

Where does the Pandits stand in your solution? Do you see them returning?

On October 14, 1994, when I stepped out of my prison cell I began my journey home from the city of temples, which is called Jammu. I went to all those camps where the Pandits have been put up after they were forced to flee their homes in a conspiracy during the reign of governor Jagmohan. The conspiracy was to tarnish our reputation in the world community, and give the issues at hand a communal tint. But today we are in touch with the leaders of the Pandit community.

We have lived together in harmony for centuries.We consider ourselves incomplete without them. Whatever proposals the Pandit leaders may have for returning to their homeland, we will accept it and do more than what they have asked. This is a problem that concerns us all. When we talk of azaadi we include the Pandits too. They too have a right to live. This Kashmir is theirs too. This paradise. That's why we say we are incomplete without them. We want them back here.

But the government in Delhi is using them as a trump card. Using the human angle, they are falsely displaying to the world how the Kashmiri politicians in their fight for freedom have driven the Pandits out of their homes. But this is not the truth.

Yes, it is true some criminal elements among the militants looted the homes of the Pandits, and sometimes killed. There are no two opinions about it. But it is also true that there has been a conspiracy to drive them out of Kashmir.

There is a renowned human rights activist in Jammu -- Balraj Puri. He has written a book, Kashmir towards insurgency. In it he quotes Mr Jotu, a leader of the Pandits, as saying that "Governor Jagmohan through a DSP sent me an air ticket and a message asking me to remove all Pandits out of Kashmir. The governor had promised arrangement for us in Jammu and other places in Hindustan. This was to tarnish our image."

I repeat, we are incomplete without Pandits. This is their land too.

What have you done to bring back the Pandits?

According to the JKDFP stand, we have increased our interaction with the Pandits. We have been holding meetings with them and some of the Pandits are in our party too.

What should come from the government side?

Look, the government will never want the Pandits to return. Especially those at the Kashmiri affairs desk in the home ministry. Take the case of the Wandhama massacre. Even we are not sure who is responsible. This does not suit our freedom fighters. Killing innocent people is not permitted by any religion.

We are Muslims and our Prophet, peace be upon him, has said that he who kills an innocent person destroys an entire universe. But the way the situation is being engineered, it may not be the best time for the Pandits to return. And the local government and the government in Delhi are responsible. This is because the suffering of the homeless Pandits work out better for the governments.

We have always wanted the Pandits to return. We are incomplete without them. We will not be able to take another step without them.

Let me also say there will never be peace in South Asia and Hindustan will never be able to play its role in the region till it solves the Kashmir problem. The government of Hindustan has an important role to play. And the biggest impediment for Hindustan in playing this role is Kashmir. If Hindustan and Pakistan begin talks on the problem and include Kashmiris in it, there's no stopping the progress of both the nations. Otherwise, they will continue to live on the charity of the IMF and the WB.

The rate at which the Indo-Pak talks have progressed, how long do you think it will be before peace returns to Kashmir?

The matter is in the hands of the government in Delhi. If it is sincere and if it is really sympathetic towards its citizens, it must sit down and talk. Take the instance of Atal Bihari Vajpayeesahab. He recently promised Pakistan that he would discuss all aspects of Kashmir. Similarly he must take a stand that he will hold talks with the real representatives of Kashmir. Without any conditions.

If he puts up conditions before the talks, it may be that he is not interested in discussions. And he's trying to delay and avoid the issue. Just like Advanisahab when he threatens to strike. These things don't lead towards a solution. These don't solve problems but complicate them.

What do you think is the mood among the militants? Are they ready to drop the gun and participate in the political process? Are you doing anything to draw them to your line of thinking?

I cannot talk for the militants because I have no direct link with them. Whatever information I have about them I gather from the BBC World Service, the print media and the electronic media. But if a process of meaningful dialogue is begun and the Government of India is sympathetic, then we may be able to appeal to the militants. It is a war and like in any other war, including the two World Wars and the three wars between Indian and Pakistan, the feuding nations have to come to the negotiation table.

When the three of us -- Indians, Pakistanis and Kashmiris -- come to the table we will appeal to the militants through the print and electronic media to cease fire till a breakthrough in the talks is reached, and a beginning is made. But to make this happen the government of Hindustan must play its role.

Speaking about militants, do you see a popular decline in the support for insurgency?

The people of Kashmir are peace loving. They want a complete solution to their problems. Like I said before, the youth of this place picked up the gun because there was no other option. And those guns were picked up not against the people of Hindustan but against the aggressors. The people of JK are peace loving. They consider their home to be a paradise. What Switzerland is to Europe Jammu and Kashmir is to South Asia. All the countries of South Asia have an interest in saving their paradise. The Kashmiris want their land of rishis and munis to return to peace.

What is your assessment of Dr Farooq Abdullah's government?

The government of Farooq Abdullah has come from New Delhi. It is an imported government. Abdullahsahab went to the public with autonomy. And on the basis of autonomy he managed a few votes. But he hasn't been able to deliver anything. I don't think he is required here. Farooqsahab's government says normalcy has been restored. But I insist that Kashmir is still a war zone. If it is not a war zone what is the need for his government to continue with the Disturbed Area Act?

Does this make sense? All this sham of a government is being put up for the benefit of the Indian public and to retain a lame chair. He has no say among the people of Kashmir. I had said in a press conference that even the most junior worker of our party will beat him in an election. We can easily prove to the world that he has no say among the people of Kashmir.

Nani Palkhivala said recently that partition could be a solution to the issue..

One partition took place in 1947. The wounds it inflicted have not healed yet. We, the people of Jammu and Kashmir, especially us, the Muslims from the valleys, do not want partition. Yes, the situation is terrible. But we are not ready for partition. Old wounds haven't healed yet. We don't want to repeat 1947. It will not be good for either Hindustan or Pakistan.

Speaking to Rediff, the governor of Kashmir has said that he would not allow even an inch of Kashmir to go to Pakistan.

Atal Bihari Vajpayee has already said in Parliament that he is ready to discuss any Kashmir-related problem with Pakistan. Now after that whatever Girish Chandra Saxenasahab has to say is his own opinion.

The Kashmir problem has been studied and discussed by the P-5, G-8, Japan and Bangladesh among others. It is another matter that India has rejected third party intervention in the issue. But that doesn't mean the trouble in Kashmir does not exist. The superpower of America also understands the problem. It is obvious that if there is to be another war between the countries, it would be on the Kashmir issue. The world is unanimous on this conclusion. But if G C Saxena holds another opinion what can I do about it?

Would you welcome third party intervention in the matter?

It is our stand that whoever, even a foreign power, wishes to intervene and help solve the problem is welcome, provided he has a valid reason to be involved. But such an involvement has been stonewalled by the government in Delhi. If the government in Delhi has a valid reason for its stand, if its case is solid, then it should also welcome help from outside.

The Rediff Interviews