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The Rediff Interview/K Madhavan

'To say that the DMK is responsible when a criminal investigation has not accused them of any offence is a travesty of justice'

The Commission and the investigation team worked parallel to each other.

It was unfortunate. It should not happened.

Is it good to have such commissions which work parallel to investigating agencies?

It is not good for the country. I can tell you an anecdote. One part of it is, I won't say obscene, a bit crude. But I can quote Parkinson. While on his way to India, Parkinson was asked on the plane, what is your impression about a commission of inquiry? He said, well, a commission of inquiry is like what happens in a toilet. There is a sitting, there is a report and then the matter is dropped. He said that. I am not saying it. You can say Madhavan quoted Parkinson.

A couple of years back when I interviewed SIT chief Karthikeyan, he said it was a tremendous strain on them reporting to the Justice Verma Commission and the Justice Jain Commission while investigating the case.

I can understand their agony because they have done a thorough and good job. I have heard that they spent sleepless nights in the first few months. But they have brought out the truth. So, it must be very painful to them that all this is happening. Unfortunately, they are not able to speak. They won't be allowed to speak and that is one of the reasons why I am speaking.

I have faced such situations when I was in service where accusations were made and I had to be silent because I was in service. Now I felt at least somebody should speak out and say what is actually happening. And that speaking out should be by a person who is not linked to politics, who is not a politician as such.

Don't you think the SIT proceedings have been going on for a very long time? Moreover, as the trial was conducted in camera, the public feel they are not doing anything.

It has been a very, very long time. Ultimately, nothing is going to happen.

It was reported then that Rajiv Gandhi was told by intelligence agencies that the LTTE could be believed. You yourself said earlier that intelligence reports more often than not are wrong. Why does it happen that way?

Half of the intelligence reports are motivated to please the government in power. Out of the remaining 50%, 30% are wrong. Only 20% would be correct. See, one drawback with an intelligence report, is, it is never tested in a court of law whereas the CBI report has to be tested. Every full stop and comma in a CBI report is tested and challenged in a court of law.

The Intelligence Bureau can make a saint out of a villain and a villain into a saint which the CBI cannot do.

As the CBI's joint director, were you aware of the way the LTTE was functioning in India at that time?

No, no. The CBI is not in the picture as far as intelligence is concerned. So, whatever knowledge I had about the LTTE was as a citizen of India, reading the newspapers. IB reports on such issues don't come to the CBI.

You were the joint director when the assassination happened. Under what circumstances was the SIT formed?

After the tragic murder of Rajiv Gandhi, at nine in the morning, the CBI director convened a meeting of all IGs. Karthikeyan was not in the CBI at that time. So, Vijay Karan, the CBI director, told all of us, 'Two names were considered; one was Madhavan and the other was Karthikeyan. Because Madhavan has done the Bofors case, some image was created about him vis-a-vis Rajiv Gandhi. So, we have decided to appoint Karthikeyan.'

Then Vijay Karan asked me, 'Is it all right with you, Madhavan?' I said, 'Sir, if you had asked me to head the team, I would have refused for the same reason. It is not proper that I head the team'.

Then I suggested that Raju should be called from J&K because he was an excellent officer. Immediately Vijay Karan noted his name and telephoned the home secretary and said that we wanted Raju to report to us from Srinagar immediately. Sreekumar, another DIG, joined the SIT. Ragothaman was the investigating officer. So, the cream of CBI was brought in and they have done an excellent job.

So it pained me when I found that a Commission sitting in an air conditioned room after examining a few witnesses giving a report which more or less goes against what the CBI has found.

In your statement, you have said that Rajiv Gandhi himself was responsible for his death...

No, no. I didn't say that. Fortunately what I issued to PTI was a written statement. So, I can't say I am misquoted. What I said was, Rajiv was rather careless about his security. I didn't say Rajiv Gandhi himself was responsible. In law, there is a term known as contributory negligence. It is legal terminology.

An accident might have happened due to 'A' doing something. But if 'B' was also careless about it, then it becomes a case of contributory negligence. Like, in a highly dangerous building when everyone is wearing a helmet, you enter with bravado without a helmet ad your head gets hurt. It is a typical example of contributory negligence.

Likewise, the security agencies are there to protect the PM and others. But the politicians also have a role to play. He should not discard security and run away from them or push away constables. After all, they are mere constables.

If the prime minister or the chief minister or a leading VIP pushes them away, they get scared, they don't know how to react. If it is Britain, the constable would talk back saying, 'Sir, you have no business to do this.' But in India a poor constable feels 'he (the VIP) is a big man, he is pushing me away. What can I do?'

It is well known -- this is also there in the Commission's report -- that the LTTE became strong in India when MGR ruled Tamil Nadu.

The LTTE was even supported by the Congress government at the Centre. Everyone supported them. I won't say there is anything wrong, in the sense that Tamils there were suffering. There is a communal affinity in human beings. If Keralites were suffering in the Gulf, people in Kerala have a feeling that our brethren are suffering. IF Britishers suffer in India, let us say, the Britishers will feel that our people are suffering. So, you can't say that that feeling was bad.

In fact, I would put the sequence of events like BC and AD. I would name them as pre-Prabhakaran and post-Prabhakaran days. During the pre-Prabhakaran days, in India and Tamil Nadu in particular, there was a lot of sympathy for the Tamilians. His true colours came out in the post-Prabhakaran period. He started killing his rivals. Various people started doubting his bonafides. Therefore, a lot of sympathy was lost for the LTTE though even now people feel for the suffering Tamils over there.

What, according to you, would be the reason why the Jain Commission report underplayed the roles of the Congress at the Centre and the AIADMK here?

I don't know. That would mean I attribute some motive to Mr Jain which I would not like to do. You can ask Mr Jain himself. He is the best person to answer that. But I only say that he should not have done it.

EARLIER INTERVIEW:
• 'The Swiss would never hand over the Bofors papers had there been no big crime'

'The Jain Commission report is nothing but sensationalism'

'The CBI should be kept in check'