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The Rediff Interview/S Jaipal Reddy

'My declared objective, right from the beginning, was to render myself jobless'

S Jaipal Reddy has actually wrought a miracle. He has put Prasar Bharti in place, abdicated government control over the electronic media, and (what is most amazing) in a dramatic change of strategy last week, dispensed with the very idea of a board of 22 MPs to oversee Doordarshan and All India Radio. No wonder, he is a hero to the media today and, for the first time, Indian broadcasting is hopeful of being unshackled, free.

In his exclusive interview to Pritish Nandy, Reddy explains what the new Prasar Bharti will actually be like. Who will call the shots? Who will fund the new organisation? What will be its stated objectives?

How did you make this miracle happen? Government gives up control. Parliament gives up control. The bureaucracy gives up control. DD, AIR are about to be free! No one ever thought it could happen -- since V P Singh mooted Prasar Bharati. Everyone thought it was an impossible dream.

Mr V P Singh actually went about it very honestly. The Congress led by Mr Rajiv Gandhi also co-operated. Without them, this Act could not have been passed. But in the meantime, for other reasons, the government fell...

But that was another Prasar Bharati Bill. In that incarnation, there were still many loopholes, many controls envisaged. You have successfully managed to remove those as well.

That was the consensus that could be engineered at that time. We must understand one thing in the context of today's fractured polity: an act of Parliament has almost the same strength as a provision of the Constitution. Because the government of the day may manipulate a majority in the Lower House, but no government in the next 10 years will have a majority in the Upper House. No act can be amended or adopted unless both Houses co-operate. So, whatever tentacles were there, they were there because of the apprehensions articulated by various sections in both Houses of Parliament at that time.

I would like to make one point about politicians. They are not resisting this because they want to cling to power. Politicians have an unarticulated mistrust of non-political intellectuals. Maybe this mistrust is mutual. But while non-political intellectuals openly articulate this mistrust, politicians do not.

How did you manage to persuade Parliament to see reason?

I took the president of the Congress, Mr Sitaram Kesri, into full confidence before I took the changes to the Cabinet. Also, if we had a less liberal prime minister, this would have been inconceivable. But Mr Gujral was himself an information minister -- and a fine one at that -- so it was easier for me to convince him.

What about Kesri? Did he voice any reservations?

He did not. I explained the situation to him. He asked me about the various features of Prasar Bharati in a broad way. I convinced him that these would be good and he did not resist it. I could not have done all this without, first, clearing the political decks.

The Congress party has a long track record of controlling, manipulating, misusing Doordarshan. Will they abdicate this right easily?

I think the Congress leaders now realise that the use or abuse of the electronic media does not eventually help any political party. It has not helped anybody who has tried to misuse this power. The moment Doordarshan is controlled by the government, its credibility is seriously impaired. In my personal view, the coverage of news by Doordarshan even now is not poor.

But its credibility is poor because it is seen as a handmaiden of those in power.

Correct. In fact, its coverage is more rounded, more balanced. It is better than other news on other channels.

But its credibility remains poor because it is perceived to be misused, slanted by the government in power.

You are right. It is perceived to be a tool of the government. It enjoys autonomy, but no one believes it. Without lifting a little finger, we are now improving its credibility by setting it free. But you must realise one thing. No team can bring about a miraculous change in a short while. Every institution needs some breathing time. Meanwhile, we will be putting in place the best possible team.

Another interesting point of this is that autonomy starts right from the point of selection.

You mean the point of selection of the selection committee? In fact, why don't you explain how exactly the structure will look -- I mean the new, independent structure that you have proposed, starting with the three-man selection committee?

The vice-president is the ex officio chairman.

Then you have the Press Council chief?

Yes, he is also there as an ex officio member. Then you have a nominee of the Rashtrapati. He will be a nominee of the government.

You mean Pai Panandikar…

I don't know. No name has been finalised as yet. But the third person will be the Rashtrapati's nominee. The government's nominee.

These three people will select a board. The board will have one chairman, who will again be part time. There will be six more part-time members of this board and one executive member.

The CEO?

Yes. He will be on the board as an executive member. It is so named in the Act. All these eight will have six-year terms and they cannot be removed during these six years except through a very difficult procedure, which will be as difficult as…

Impeachment?

Absolutely. There will be a legislative guarantee with regard to tenure. This will allow members to exercise their independence. If the sword of Damocles hangs over their heads, how will they work? This guarantee of tenure will ensure independent decision-making.

We are passing through a phase in the Indian polity when every institution, every organ is assertive. No one is prepared to subordinate itself to the fiat of the executive. I consider this to be a welcome feature. Democracy implies a system of checks and counter-checks. Unlike other systems of government, it is based on the lack of faith in human virtues.

The board, as such, will have 15 members. Apart from the eight I have mentioned, the remaining members will be the director general of Doordarshan -- who will be selected by the board, not by the government, the director general, All India Radio -- also selected by the board, member personnel and member finance. They are on the board by virtue of the substantive positions they hold in the organisation. Then you will have two people to be elected from among the employees. Then you will have one official from the information ministry.

This means, Pritishji, in a board of 15 you will have only one nominee from the government and that too for the purpose of ensuring co-ordination!

A full-time member?

No, he too will be part time. Just like bank boards have joint secretaries from the finance ministry, we will have this representative on the board. There will be only five full-time members. The CEO, the two DGs and the member personnel and the member finance. No one else.

And there will be no board of 22 MPs, as originally envisaged, to oversee the functioning of DD and AIR!

No question.

So the two DGs will report to the CEO?

That's right. In addition, I have got the government relieved of the responsibility of fixing the airtime fees. The board will decide that. Why should the government get involved?

Will the government continue to subsidise the organisation? Or will DD and AIR have to raise their own revenues to meet their own expenses?

Parliament will subsidise. Not the government.

To what extent?

As usual. This means the proposal will go to the Planning Commission, which will vet it.

This means the organisation will not necessarily have to be self-sufficient?

No. No public service broadcasting corporation in the world makes money.

This means it will be under no compulsion to put on air populist rubbish in the name of earning revenue to make its ends meet?

Ideally, the organisation should try and fend for itself. But if it is to increase its network, it needs planned assistance.

But wouldn't all this end up with you being jobless? What will the information & broadcasting ministry do if you have no Doordarshan to manipulate, no All India Radio to boss over? How will you please your friends in Parliament?

I have other things to attend to. My declared objective, right from the beginning, was to render myself jobless. In no advanced Western country will you find such a ministry. Except perhaps in France. There is no such ministry in the USA or any other part of Europe as far as I know. So why should we have a ministry for information & broadcasting in India?

To bully, manipulate, bribe the media -- I guess -- and put across the government's point of view as strongly as possible. To encourage state patronage. To intervene in matters which should ideally be of no concern to the state. Why do you need a National Film Development Corporation? Why do you need a Films Division? Why do you need all this Song and Drama stuff? This Directorate of Advertising and Visual Publicity? They are all anachronisms in a free nation.

I am not frankly able to answer this right away. But we are looking into all these matters. Shyam Benegal has given us a report on what to do with the Films Division. We are looking into that.

But why should you look into that? Surely the job of your government is not to make films nor encourage/ discourage them. Why must you intervene in areas that are no concern of yours, or of any government for that matter? Why don't you wash your hands off the media and entertainment business as a whole and simply install systems to ensure that no one does anything wrong?

That is exactly what we are planning to do. The Broadcasting Authority has precisely that objective, that brief. Once we have got Prasar Bharti in place, we will attend to that as a most important priority. You are right, I think. We should stay away from all this and attend to what we know, what we are best at. This is not our area of skill or competence.

The Rediff Interview