The Rediff Special
'Sooner or later we will face a civil war'
Youngsters between 18 and 25 were the Shiv Sena's strength. This generation is moving away from the Sena.
No, absolutely not. There are no special programmes due to the rainy season. Our business is slack nowadays. There are no meeting due to lack of open grounds.
Shakhas were always crowded earlier...
They are even today. These are baseless charges. How many of you take pains to see the crowd in ourshakhas? Very few. People ask us this question to plague us.
Many movements, including the Lokadhikar Samiti, are not so active now...
Some of our people should have made sacrifices. But everybody got involved in the government, except me and Subhash Desai, who is ineligible to run for elections following strictures against him for the use of religion during elections...
With the exception of both of us all other leaders have become ministers. The torchbearers of the Lokadhikar Samiti, Sudhir Joshi and Gajanan Kirtikar, are grappling with the intricacies of governance. So you might feel that the movement is not so active. But common workers in Shiv Sena are still active, ready to work hard. They are the ones spearheading the Lokadhikar Samiti now.
Maybe, I will have to change the leadership of the Lokadhikar Samiti in the future, if the situation demands it. One man cannot handle the pressure of working at three places simultaneously. These people should voluntarily keep them away from the movement.
There is a dilution of aggression in the Shiv Sena's approach...
Absolutely not. I tell you again and again, wouldn't you consider what happened recently as aggression? We are in a fix if we blacken their faces? Why?? Because we are the government.You clobber us from all sides and ask us questions. I find this interesting. Our sainiks, women belong to our Mahila Aghadi (Women's Front) climb on top of trains, stop them... Isn't that aggression? Or shall we burn the trains?
Non-Marathi people are infiltrating the SS...
I would like you to do two things. Should you show contempt to others when they join you for the larger cause of Hindutva? What is the harm if they are joining you to strengthen your hand and that too for the specified time period of the next 15 years?
Will they understand the problems faced by Marathi people?
If you don't nourish them properly, they can always join the other side. There is no rule forcing them to remain in your stable forever. Let them go ahead and do whatever they want as Marathi people. When you feel a sense of pride and nationalism when you call yourself Hindu, then why shouldn't you accept them as Hindus?
When it comes to fighting, only Marathi youth comes on the road. Even if the fight is for Hindutva...
How can you differentiate if one is a bhaiyya or a Muslim at such moments? The situation doesn't call for this. Also it's very difficult to identify who's who.
The nation has completed 50 years of independence. Where is it heading?
The pace of progress is slackening. There is more of slackening than progress.
Who can stop this?
A multi-party coalition can't stem the rot. We need a terrific iron man for our progress.
What were you doing on August 15, 1947?
Like others, I had been with my wife to see the lighting in Bombay.
What were you feelings then about Independence?
There was a feeling of wild happiness, gay abandon...
Are those feelings still prevalent?
Those feelings are completely exhausted now. People have become passive, lifeless, insensitive to the happenings around. They are indifferent to everything today. The only service they can render to the nation is to fight for their own existence. That's their fate, their destiny. They have absolutely no idea as to why they exist.
Don't you think the nation is finding it difficult to survive because of this passivity?
I have a prediction. Sooner or later, we will face a civil war. I can't say what will happen in 1998.
What's your prediction?
Fights on a large scale; a lot of bloodshed.
What's your opinion about the Union government?
I can't have any opinion. A multi-party coalition cannot survive for long. Such a government cannot chart a definite course for the nation. There can't be any progress or development. Gujral's good intentions may not be enough, considering there are 13 parties, each with a separate agenda. Everybody wants to avoid a mid-term election. Nobody cares for the nation.
H D Deve Gowda and I K Gujral became dear to you, despite their ideological leanings. Would you be endeared of Kesri, if he comes to power tomorrow?
That will depend on Kesri's behaviour. Why shall we wish harm to others if they use good to us? The need won't arise. Deve Gowda and Gujral were quite understanding, accommodative. How can I tolerate it if Kesri wishes to dismiss our government tomorrow? But if Kesri behaves like Gujral, who has courage enough to find out the truth before taking any action, the need for confrontation would not arise. Let him be a Congressman. What have we got to do with it?
Kesri has leaned your way to humiliate Sharad Pawar...
What's wrong in that if Sharad Pawar is playing dirty with him? On one hand he assures Kesri of his support, and says only Kesri can save this country. On the other hand he stabs Kesri in the back at the first possible opportunity. Should Kesri then show his back to Sharad Pawar? 'Come baba, you want to attack me? Here's my back." Kesri is a seasoned politician. How can Pawar teach him a lesson?
Today you are opposing Ram Vilas Paswan...
I have no personal feud with him. We don't want any confrontation with him. Let him understand our position. Why should we take pains when the reins of government are in our hands? And I feel that he is giving it a thought.
Paswan is not my enemy. He is not even my political opponent and I have never seen him. Why did I ban his entry into Bombay? Our man from Konkan goes from Dadar to Kurla to catch a train. He has to pay his taxi fare. A Konkani man residing at Lalbaug, Parel can even walk to Dadar. We are governing this state for the benefit of the people, their convenience. You get elected on their votes and then harass them. Such a democracy is not acceptable to me. The Konkan Railway must start from Dadar.
Does the cartoonist in you ever regret joining the hell that is politics?
Regret? For what? Everybody is born to do something. I can't help it if I'm born to be in politics. Haven't I accepted it now? You can say it's imposed on me. You have to accept it. There is no chance for any complaints.
Have you transferred some of this burden on your successors?
There is no question of transferring it to them if they are capable enough to handle it. It will happen automatically. I haven't given the chief ministership to Manohar Joshi. He is an able person. Let him do it, I said. How can I put all the burden on my shoulders? What is the need? Who am I if the people accept them? I can't stop them. I haven't imposed Uddhav or Raj on people. If I do it, you can call it dynastic rule. But the people want them. It's their question.
Political circles are agog about differences between Uddhav and Raj.
No. How many times shall we have to explain that? Even they have maintained that they are brothers first; politics comes later.
We will quit politics the day a rift is created in our family because of politics. What else can I say? And who are these pimps who keep asking these questions repeatedly? Who are these people of low pedigree who want to create a rift in our family?
Kind courtesy: Saamna. Translated by Prasanna D Zorey.
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