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The Rediff Interview/Father Babu Joseph
March 19, 2003
Indian Christians were recently outraged at the 'clandestine' survey on their community in Gujarat and came out strongly against it.
The All India Christian Council moved a petition in the Gujarat high court expressing apprehension about the surreptitious nature of the survey. Justice H K Rathod issued a notice to Gujarat administration officials.
Father Babu Joseph, spokesman for the Catholic Bishops Conference of India, explained to Chief Correspondent Tara Shankar Sahay the reasons why Christians are agitated over the issue.
When did the survey on your community commence in Gujarat and what do you think was the intention?
We came to know of this particular exercise of gathering information regarding Christian families a few days ago. Reports came from some individuals in Gujarat that the exercise was on and the police had been deputed to gather information on us -- the number of Christians in various localities, their sources of finance and other related information.
The police did not divulge who had ordered the survey and the reason behind it. The police brought some scribbled papers from their department.
This certainly gave rise to room for suspicion as to why, at this point of time, they were collecting this kind of information in such a surreptitious manner. Many Christian families and institutions were naturally very apprehensive. They objected to it and pointed out that in 2001 the entire country had undergone a census which was comprehensive. The Christians in the state were no exception to it and so they asked why they were specially being targeted for a separate inquiry. This exclusive approach towards us is mind-boggling.
Could you elaborate on the petition in the Gujarat high court against the survey?
Some community members talked to the media about the unacceptability of this exercise. But it continued. The state home minister said there was no official instruction for the survey, it was only collecting some random information. That did not explain the motive behind it.
Meanwhile, the All India Christian Council moved the petition against the state of Gujarat, the police commissioner of Ahmedabad and the police inspectors of Ellisbridge and Kagdapith police stations [in Ahmedabad] for conducting the survey.
So Christians are still unsure who was responsible for the survey.
The state home minister said it had not been ordered by the government. Later on, they let it be known that it was ordered at the behest of the central government. It seems the question was raised in Parliament regarding conversions and other matters relating to our community. In order to answer that question, it was said this sort of exercise was done.
From this (government) answer it is not clear who really initiated the survey. But neither any Gujarat government agency nor any of its central government counterparts took any responsibility. It is passing the buck from one side to the other, so it is only natural that our apprehensions are intact. It is most damaging. The survey is sectarian and highly objectionable.
What is your message to the government now?
The Christian community in India is as peace loving and as patriotic as any other community. Every citizen in this country is loyal to the Constitution that does not make a distinction between one religion and another. In that respect, we have appealed to the high court that the survey is a blatant violation of the constitutional provision of treating every individual citizen with dignity and honour. It is a violation of the constitutional guarantee and freedom given to every individual to profess and practice [any religion].
Religion must not and cannot be the basis to conduct this kind of survey. That is why we are challenging the Gujarat government.
Have Christian leaders met the prime minister or the deputy prime minister in this context?
We have intimated this matter to the National Commission for Minorities and the National Commission for Human Rights. We understand the National Commission for Minorities has asked a report from the government in this regard. I must mention we are getting tremendous support from liberal and democratic minded citizens and those belonging to various constitutional bodies.
What do you think of the charge that the government lacks transparency?
Of course, the government's policies have to be transparent including those towards the country's minorities.
What has been the media's role in this affair?
The media has commented very strongly and critically on this move of the government. It is heartening that there are people concerned about developments taking place in the country.
Also, considering the recent background in Gujarat, affairs concerning the minorities in the state assume sharp focus. In the light of what happened in Gujarat during the last four years, the survey has gone a long way in vitiating the social atmosphere. People have become much more conscious about the ground realities in the state.
Does this survey have any precedent in Gujarat?
There has not been such an explicit survey. But in 1998, large-scale violence had been unleashed on the Christian community in certain parts of Gujarat.
What was the reason?
There was a tribal area where they (Hindutva forces) harped on religious conversion. We have been very clearly telling the whole world that we Christians do not believe in what is called forced conversion. It's simply a contradiction of terms to say that someone can be forcibly converted. It's insulting the intelligence. Intelligence is not measured by economic prosperity or the level of education, it's the power of discernment, the power of distinguishing what is right and what is wrong. So these kinds of claims under which they keep targeting Christians is absolutely baseless. We think conversion is a matter of personal choice and cannot be forced.
At the same time, the Constitution does respect individual freedom and religion is part of that freedom. Therefore, you cannot really choke that freedom of the individual. So the kind of allegations being made against Christians is absolutely untrue.
I would like to ask both the central and Gujarat state government to call off this survey with immediate effect because it is sending the wrong message. It should never be repeated.
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