Part I: 'Every day you have to think of survival'

In the second and concluding part of an exclusive interview, former Maharashtra chief minister Vilas Deshmukh tells Deputy Managing Editor Rajeev D Pai and News Editor Pankaj Upadhyaya that the state Congress unit did not back him up the way it should have, and rejects talk about his son's entry into films having resulted in his ouster.

How long do you think it will take the state to get back on the rails?

The point is, in this coalition government, we are not in a position to raise any more taxes. We have reached a saturation point. Unless and until we generate resources... from where we can generate them? We have to raise everything. We have to raise water charges, we have to raise electricity charges. Everywhere we are giving subsidy. Unless and until  [we are able to reduce] what we call non-merit subsidies and merit subsidies... that is a term. What is merit subsidies and what is non-merit subsidies? It all depends on how you look at them. Perception is important. For me, I may say that no, agriculture should be protected, they should be given more subsidy. Somebody may say why you are giving more subsidy?

Politically also some decisions are very difficult. We have to always keep in mind our vote banks. We are here to run the government. We are not professionals. This is not a private company. It's a government. And the main principle of any government is the welfare state. We must keep this in mind. It's not a privately owned company or corporate house thinking of profits. We have to always see it is a welfare state. There are people who need some more help. They are the citizens of this country. We have to provide them drinking water. We have to provide nutrition programmes in the hill areas.

I don't think anybody objects to assistance given to the really needy...

What they say, what they say... now once you have MES, whatever decision they take you must charge that much money to the farmers. Farmers may not pay that much amount. And our coalition partners, those who protect the interests of the farmers, will immediately oppose. We have to give subsidy of Rs 800 crore every year for electricity, MSEB [Maharashtra State Electricity Board]. We have to do that. It is a political commitment, political compulsion. These are the things which always come in our way.

Take the case of this cotton monopoly procurement scheme. We took the decision that we will not pay any more subsidy. Whatever the Government of India decides the price, that much we will pay to the farmers. We expressed our policy on the floor of the House. Immediately, this Sena-BJP started an agitation. When they started an agitation, our own party people also fall into that. NCP, Congress, all small parties, they said no, nothing doing, you have to pay the old commitments. But today we can't, because the loss has gone up to 4,000 crores! How much the state can bear? They said we don't know anything about it, you can't withdraw that scheme. We had to roll back. So these are the decisions which we took in principle, but practically it was difficult, we had to roll back because of political compulsions.

That is the difficulty of this coalition culture. A single party can unitedly fight. This is a party decision, now we will face the people. Or face the opposition. But here it is very difficult. Our own partners started saying that no, no, no, no, this decision you cannot take. You have to change your decision. So in any coalition government, first thing is that you have to survive your own government and then you have to run the government. In single-party government you have to only run the government. You don't have to think of survival. Here, every day you have to think of survival.

Your finance minister, Jayant Patil, was quoted as saying that there were several initiatives he wanted to take, but the government never let him do anything.

That is only because of this coalition! Unless and until the Cabinet approves, he may have some ideas, but the approval should be given by the Cabinet.

In fact, at one point he wanted to quit.

See, you cannot do things which are not acceptable to all the partners. That is the whole difficulty. The parties may be very small, having two members, one member, but they are crucial.

But isn't it odd that such a big state is being held hostage by a party with maybe one MLA, 2 MLAs?

But that is the difficulty always with a fractured mandate! Who should be blamed? No single party was given the opportunity to run this government. So you have to collect the people and make your own majority. Unless and until the party, any political party, they get the clear-cut political mandate, they can perform better.

Do you think your own party organisation failed to back you up as much as you would have liked?

Yes, that is true, to certain extent.

Because you did not have a very healthy relationship with then Congress chief Govindrao Adik.

Yes, that is true, that is true. Not that they were totally biased, but at the same time they were having their own difficulties. They may not have supported all my decisions. Sometimes they used to come openly and say no, we don't accept this at all. So if there had been proper coordination...

So it was difficult for you to focus on governance...

See, what happened, generally whatever decisions I took, or government took, it is for the party to propagate that. But that was not there. There was a lack of communication, lack of coordination. That has also harmed my performance to some extent.

Your opponents in the party say you didn't bother much about the party.

No, that is not true. It depends upon how you take your party into confidence. Everyday if the party always tries to pull my legs [sic], or everyday they criticize, then naturally that support or that sympathy or that kind of cooperation... see, everybody is a human being. And the human being always thinks about X is supporting me, or always trying to criticise me. Those relations, one has to strengthen. It depends upon mutual understanding. If mutual understanding is not there, then I'm bound to see that things are not happening in the proper direction.

Do you think it's possible for the party to return to power?

Of course, why not?

You think Mr Shinde has sufficient time to...

No, may not be having sufficient time, but his vast experience, especially as finance minister of the state, he has presented 9 budgets continuously, that's a record I think...

But even he has never faced a deficit of the sort that is now confronting the state.

No, that time was the best time. He was the finance minister of the best time. Today he will be finding the worst time. It will be very difficult.

You said all the problems you faced could be traced to the politics of coalition government...

No, that is one reason. At the same time, the difficulties are such that the government is always a welfare government, so nobody would like to tax more. Whenever we took the decision of raising taxes, we had to roll back again... Any government is always judged by how less you collect taxes.

So now it will be very vital for the Congress and the NCP to come together before the election.

That all depends. Unless and until the NCP clears their stand on Sonia's foreign issue, it is very difficult to come closer. It is not that it is only the assembly election. It is an adjustment. Why we came together? We fought an election against each other. But why we came together? To keep these communal forces out of power. That was the only common agenda. That's why we have forgotten what kind of allegations we made against each other. But now, the next assembly or parliamentary elections, if there has to be any kind of understanding between the NCP and the Congress, unless and until they clear their stand, tomorrow, what would happen? Because we are not interested only in the assembly. Our main interest would be in the parliamentary election. What would be your stand in the parliamentary election?

So that issue hasn't yet been sorted.

That decision is always to be taken by the high command.

Do you seem to be coming closer?

We hope to do. We hope that they should come together. But at the same time they must also clarify their stand. The SP [Samajwadi Party] has no reservation on the foreign issue. But NCP has that reservation still. That is the reason why they had a separate party. Otherwise there is nothing any other issues which don't bring these two Congress together. But if these two Congress [parties] want to come together, before that they must openly clear their stand, otherwise there will be lot of confusion.

When we spoke to Mr [Chhagan] Bhujbal [Maharashtra's deputy chief minister], he said if the Congress and NCP don't come together, the Sena-BJP will win the election.

That is the reality. Whatever he has said, I endorse that. But at the same time if the NCP would really like to come closer to the Congress, they must clear their stand. How can they keep their stand reserved and ask for our cooperation or support? That will be very difficult, because people outside will ask. Suppose tomorrow we will go on their platform and say that elect NCP. If they are elected as member of Parliament, what stand they would take if the issue of prime minister comes? Whether they will support Soniaji. That has to be cleared, very clear and loud.

But if they say that they have no objection to Sonia becoming prime minister, then there is no reason for them to exist as a separate party.

At that time they should merge with the Congress [laughs].

The ultimate aim is merger...

Han! That is better. Why then these separate parties?

You were always seen as an ambitious politician. You never made any secret of your desire to be chief minister, way back in the late 1980s and early 1990s.

Yeah.

Now you have been chief minister and you are out of it. What next?

I will concentrate more on the organisation. I will spend more time to organise and help the party. Now I don't have any more ambition. That was my final goal.

Nothing at the Centre? You don't want to move ahead into national politics?

Centre, you see, in politics, as I told Madam Soniaji, my services are always available for the party organisation. In what capacity you would like to utilise me, I am available. That much I have told her.

There was a lot of speculation that your son Ritesh's film career, it worked against you.

No, not at all, not at all.

You were quoted as saying that all the Congress workers would help to make the film a hit.

No, no, that was in a very lighter vein. Somebody asked me when I was just standing [at the theatre for the premiere show] ... why should I do that? But now people started finding out the reasons [for my removal]. Suppose you want to dislodge some person, then you must collect the reasons and make out the case. And this is one of the reasons that they have just made out.

Somebody said the decision had been taken earlier, but because of the Gujarat [election] it was stalled. Some people have written that also, in some print media. Then if the decision was taken prior to the Gujarat election, why this reason, this film story, should be attached to that?

It has nothing to do! The producer is from Hyderabad. I know many film producers. I'd have requested one of my friends to give him a break here in Maharashtra. But he got this on his own. He is a professional architect. He was doing his business. Accidentally he got some break. It's not his career. Because there was nobody from my family attached to this cultural field, but he got it on his own. Once he got it on his own, as a father, was it not my duty, just, okay, he has made this film, let us call all our friends? So that special screening was arranged.

The connection that was made was that just a couple of days before that a part of the secretariat building was attached by the debt recovery tribunal for the state government's failure to repay some loans.

But why? Was it a government function? I have not used even government letterheads. I got it printed on my private letterhead. The invitation which I sent to my friends, it was on a simple paper. There was no dinner. Nothing special. It was arranged in a multiplex where there was total exemption of entertainment tax. So it was not that I have given some entertainment tax exemption. Have I done that? So that all people should come and see the film? No special favour from government. Not a pie was spent from the government exchequer. And the stories... because I was the chief minister and he happens to be my son. So naturally the stories can be attached. Attached to the chair, not to the person [smiles].

I am nobody today, so nobody will attach anything to me. People will have some sympathy on the contrary. And that happens. I know, I know. I have gone from all the stages. I was a state minister, Cabinet minister, chief minister. So I know how things are cooked and how things are served. That I know.

What kind of response did you get on your recent tour of [your home district] Latur?

Excellent! There is sympathy.

Is there anger among the people?

No, not anger. You see, we are party soldiers. We say both the decisions we must accept as it is. When you have accepted the first decision, of making you the chief minister, you must accept in the same spirit when they say that no, you must now step down. That is the real spirit. In that spirit we have accepted the decision. I'm happy Sushilkumar got it this time, not those who went to Delhi to pull down my government. They were shown the door.

Did you have a hand in that?

Huh?

Did you have a hand in showing them the door?

I didn't have any hand in that. Delhi has shown them the door. I must thank the high command for that.

Some of them are not even in the new Cabinet.

That's the point. Tomorrow such people will not be encouraged. And nobody will go to Delhi against Shinde. That will indirectly benefit Shinde, to have smooth running of his government.

Photographs: Jewella C Miranda; Image: Rahil Shaikh