rediff.com: Series: Josy Joseph reports on the recent mayhem in Nepal

Josy Joseph

'I find it curious that the violence was so well-organised'

An Indian Foreign Service officer of the 1964 batch, Ambassador to Nepal Deb Mukharji is one of New Delhi's most seasoned diplomats.
He was a key player in containing the recent mayhem and anti-India movements in that Himalayan kingdom.
Mukharji spoke to Special Correspondent Josy Joseph in Kathmandu about the various aspects of the violence and its impact on Indo-Nepal relations.
What led to the violence?
I think we would have to wait for the report of the inquiry committee that was set up by His Majesty's government before anything definitive can be said. All I will say is I find it rather curious that the violence was so spontaneous and so well-organised. And very, very sudden. Normally one would expect a build-up of emotions before something of this nature happens. That was not so. This was a very sudden eruption.
Leaders of industry and tourism believe there was a conspiracy behind the attacks on Marwaris and other Indians. Do you share that view?
I have heard it, it has been reported. But, again, I would say that it would be for His Majesty's government to come out with their conclusions as to how these developments took place. Who started the rumour? Who gave it prominence? How was it spread? At whom was the violence directed? These are some of the questions that would obviously arise in the minds of any observer and I am sure the inquiry committee will look into these issues.
How badly was the Indian community hit?
There was, of course, damage to property. There was, of course, physical injury in some cases. But I think the biggest casualty has been the sense of confidence [of Indians].
What is the kind of involvement India has in Nepal? What kind of dependence does Nepal have on India?
Let me split it into two parts. One is the involvement of the Government of India in projects in Nepal over the last 50 years. India has been involved with the construction of the first airport in Nepal, the Tribhuvan airport. India was involved in the construction of the first road from the Tribhuvan Rajpath to the valley down south and on.
Over the years, India has been involved in the construction of the East-West highway, which links the entire length of Nepal, more or less the entire Terai region. And that connectivity was completed in the middle of last year by the completion of the 22 Bridges Project. Now it is physically possible to drive from one end of Nepal to the other.
In addition, our government has been involved in the construction of hospitals and irrigation facilities in various places. Our involvement continues.
There is a high-level task force, which looks into future projects. Obviously, as desired by His Majesty's government, we have this excellent institution of learning at Dharar. Doctors from India will be send as desired by His Majesty's government, and they will be serving there till 2009. We have the Beer Hospital with which we have been involved, we have the maternity hospital with which we have been involved.
For the future we have suggestions from His Majesty's government, to which we have agreed. [We are] looking into the possibility of a hydropower project, 300 to 500 MW, then we have also agreed to set up an institute of technology in whatever manner His Majesty's government would wish for. There are also other things like scholarships, and provision for ambulances.
In addition, I am happy to say that in the past three years, there has been considerable investment by Indian companies. Today, this amounts to some 56 per cent of all foreign investment. Forty per cent of all employment by joint ventures are by Indian companies. They contribute substantially to Nepal's exports to India.
And here I must point out that after the Treaty of Trade, 1996, Nepal's exports to India have virtually tripled. Clearly, it is possible to have a win-win situation for both countries. And one would hope that this sort of trend continues.
And then there is the much reputed Gurkha soldiers from Nepal in the Indian army.
There is a longstanding relationship and there was an agreement in 1947 under which Gurkha soldiers will continue to serve in the Indian army. Their numbers are quite substantial, it runs into many tens of thousands. It does bring us closer. I have had the occasion to visit some of the areas where recruitment takes place. I think it really has been beneficial to both the countries.
Please give us an idea about the number of Indian citizens in Nepal.
I can only tell you about those registered with the embassy. About 16,000. There could be others, but obviously unless they are registered with us I am unable to put any figures.
How far was the media responsible for last week's flare-up? Last year it was the Indian media that was accused of distorting facts about Nepal during the hijack of the Indian Airlines flight.
May I ask you which report you have in mind?
The Indian media had claimed, wrongly as it turned out, that a Nepali passenger was one of the hijackers and that led to much protest in Kathmandu.
Yeah, yeah. To that extent they were let down. But by and large the Indian media was not off the mark in identifying the cause of the problem. I don't want to draw parallels here. Yes, some errors may have been made last year. And I don't think the Indian media, if I may speak for your people, was in any way responsible for any flare-up or any difficulties.
As I said, how it happened and so on will have to be investigated, but even looking at the Nepali media today it seems quite clear there were stories that caused trouble. Frankly, I also find it curious that 48 hours after Hrithik Roshan issued his statement and it was available on Star TV's Web site, certain sections of the media continued to fan the particular passion completely ignoring the reality. That speaks for itself.
In recent times, Opposition parties in Nepal seem to be riding on anti-Indian sentiment. Or, as a senior Nepali journalist pointed out, it seems to be a fashion to be anti-India here. Is it true that anti-India sentiments are a major issue with political parties here?
India has always been extremely forthcoming about her relations with Nepal. And yet, I think you do have a point. The anti-India plank is used by certain political elements. It is not fortunate. I don't think it in any way serves the interests of the people of Nepal. It is something that can be used for certain ends, but I do not believe that this reflects the general mood of the Nepali people.
Has these developments affected Indo-Nepal relations?
The developments have caused a slight jolt to the confidence. I sincerely hope it would not go beyond that, and that it would be contained once the facts are known. There are many, many voices of reason in Nepal -- as you have seen, I am sure, in the past few days. They have spoken out on this issue very clearly.
I don't believe it will damage Indo-Nepal relations as such. I think when we are neighbours, hiccups do happen. But I think it would be important to establish how this really unfortunate widespread violence took place, who were responsible. I think this identification should be made so that Indians here regain their full confidence.
Are you cancelling any inter-governmental meetings or dialogues?
No, no, no. Not in the least. Sometimes the situation gets out of hand. It happens in India also once in a while. I don't think it would be correct to hold His Majesty's government responsible. As far as our interaction with His Majesty's government is concerned, that is going on absolutely normally.
In the wake of the hijack, India demanded better proof of identity for travellers. And now there is a chorus among Nepali politicians demanding work permits, passports and visa. How do you react to that?
I think both the governments have agreed there should be better management of the border. But the devil lies in the details. You have possibly thousands of people walking across the border every day for their daily needs. You have millions of Nepalese working in India. All these factors will have to be dealt with not in an esoteric way. There are human problems involved, we have to ensure that the citizens of the two countries are not affected by any action, their lives are not disrupted. And I hope that whatever decisions are taken in the future will also look at what is practical.
The presence of Indian troops at Kalapani, which is strategically located on the Indo-China-Nepal junction, is another contentious issue for political groups. What is the Indian stand on that? Do you plan to withdraw troops from there?
The issue came up initially about 20 years ago. Indians haven't walked into a piece of contested territory. This was part of British India. We inherited it. There is no Indo-Tibetan Border Police presence there. As Indians see, there is no reason why the ITBP should not be there on what has been Indian territory for the last 150 to 200 years.
Now, there is a claim that this in fact is Nepalese territory, thanks to the source of the Mahakali river being wrongly depicted. I personally feel that Indians have been completely fair about it. They have not rejected this out of hand. They have said all right, if that is what you feel, let us go and look at historical records, maps and everything, and decide. That process is underway.
So to simply say there are Indian troops in Kalapani and that is a bone of contention distorts the picture. I mean there are vast areas in the Himalayas, there was no Indian police or any military presence till 1959 or 1962. That did not in any way make that territory any less Indian. Where we wish to put our troops at any given point of time is our sovereign choice. As to the status of Kalapani, it is inherited from the British. India is prepared to discuss that with Nepal on the basis of facts.
The Kukri Factor | Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3
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Photographs: Josy Joseph
Page design: Dominic Xavier
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	Josy Joseph 'I find it curious that the violence was so well-organised' An Indian Foreign Service officer of the 1964 batch, Ambassador to Nepal Deb Mukharji is one of New Delhi's most seasoned diplomats. He was a key player in containing the recent mayhem and anti-India movements in that Himalayan kingdom. Mukharji spoke to Special Correspondent Josy Joseph in Kathmandu about the various aspects of the violence and its impact on Indo-Nepal relations. What led to the violence? I think we would have to wait for the report of the inquiry committee that was set up by His Majesty's government before anything definitive can be said. All I will say is I find it rather curious that the violence was so spontaneous and so well-organised. And very, very sudden. Normally one would expect a build-up of emotions before something of this nature happens. That was not so. This was a very sudden eruption. Leaders of industry and tourism believe there was a conspiracy behind the attacks on Marwaris and other Indians. Do you share that view? I have heard it, it has been reported. But, again, I would say that it would be for His Majesty's government to come out with their conclusions as to how these developments took place. Who started the rumour? Who gave it prominence? How was it spread? At whom was the violence directed? These are some of the questions that would obviously arise in the minds of any observer and I am sure the inquiry committee will look into these issues. How badly was the Indian community hit? There was, of course, damage to property. There was, of course, physical injury in some cases. But I think the biggest casualty has been the sense of confidence [of Indians]. What is the kind of involvement India has in Nepal? What kind of dependence does Nepal have on India? Let me split it into two parts. One is the involvement of the Government of India in projects in Nepal over the last 50 years. India has been involved with the construction of the first airport in Nepal, the Tribhuvan airport. India was involved in the construction of the first road from the Tribhuvan Rajpath to the valley down south and on. Over the years, India has been involved in the construction of the East-West highway, which links the entire length of Nepal, more or less the entire Terai region. And that connectivity was completed in the middle of last year by the completion of the 22 Bridges Project. Now it is physically possible to drive from one end of Nepal to the other. In addition, our government has been involved in the construction of hospitals and irrigation facilities in various places. Our involvement continues. There is a high-level task force, which looks into future projects. Obviously, as desired by His Majesty's government, we have this excellent institution of learning at Dharar. Doctors from India will be send as desired by His Majesty's government, and they will be serving there till 2009. We have the Beer Hospital with which we have been involved, we have the maternity hospital with which we have been involved. For the future we have suggestions from His Majesty's government, to which we have agreed. [We are] looking into the possibility of a hydropower project, 300 to 500 MW, then we have also agreed to set up an institute of technology in whatever manner His Majesty's government would wish for. There are also other things like scholarships, and provision for ambulances. In addition, I am happy to say that in the past three years, there has been considerable investment by Indian companies. Today, this amounts to some 56 per cent of all foreign investment. Forty per cent of all employment by joint ventures are by Indian companies. They contribute substantially to Nepal's exports to India. And here I must point out that after the Treaty of Trade, 1996, Nepal's exports to India have virtually tripled. Clearly, it is possible to have a win-win situation for both countries. And one would hope that this sort of trend continues. And then there is the much reputed Gurkha soldiers from Nepal in the Indian army. There is a longstanding relationship and there was an agreement in 1947 under which Gurkha soldiers will continue to serve in the Indian army. Their numbers are quite substantial, it runs into many tens of thousands. It does bring us closer. I have had the occasion to visit some of the areas where recruitment takes place. I think it really has been beneficial to both the countries. Please give us an idea about the number of Indian citizens in Nepal. I can only tell you about those registered with the embassy. About 16,000. There could be others, but obviously unless they are registered with us I am unable to put any figures. How far was the media responsible for last week's flare-up? Last year it was the Indian media that was accused of distorting facts about Nepal during the hijack of the Indian Airlines flight. May I ask you which report you have in mind? The Indian media had claimed, wrongly as it turned out, that a Nepali passenger was one of the hijackers and that led to much protest in Kathmandu. Yeah, yeah. To that extent they were let down. But by and large the Indian media was not off the mark in identifying the cause of the problem. I don't want to draw parallels here. Yes, some errors may have been made last year. And I don't think the Indian media, if I may speak for your people, was in any way responsible for any flare-up or any difficulties. As I said, how it happened and so on will have to be investigated, but even looking at the Nepali media today it seems quite clear there were stories that caused trouble. Frankly, I also find it curious that 48 hours after Hrithik Roshan issued his statement and it was available on Star TV's Web site, certain sections of the media continued to fan the particular passion completely ignoring the reality. That speaks for itself. In recent times, Opposition parties in Nepal seem to be riding on anti-Indian sentiment. Or, as a senior Nepali journalist pointed out, it seems to be a fashion to be anti-India here. Is it true that anti-India sentiments are a major issue with political parties here? India has always been extremely forthcoming about her relations with Nepal. And yet, I think you do have a point. The anti-India plank is used by certain political elements. It is not fortunate. I don't think it in any way serves the interests of the people of Nepal. It is something that can be used for certain ends, but I do not believe that this reflects the general mood of the Nepali people. Has these developments affected Indo-Nepal relations? The developments have caused a slight jolt to the confidence. I sincerely hope it would not go beyond that, and that it would be contained once the facts are known. There are many, many voices of reason in Nepal -- as you have seen, I am sure, in the past few days. They have spoken out on this issue very clearly. I don't believe it will damage Indo-Nepal relations as such. I think when we are neighbours, hiccups do happen. But I think it would be important to establish how this really unfortunate widespread violence took place, who were responsible. I think this identification should be made so that Indians here regain their full confidence. Are you cancelling any inter-governmental meetings or dialogues? No, no, no. Not in the least. Sometimes the situation gets out of hand. It happens in India also once in a while. I don't think it would be correct to hold His Majesty's government responsible. As far as our interaction with His Majesty's government is concerned, that is going on absolutely normally. In the wake of the hijack, India demanded better proof of identity for travellers. And now there is a chorus among Nepali politicians demanding work permits, passports and visa. How do you react to that? I think both the governments have agreed there should be better management of the border. But the devil lies in the details. You have possibly thousands of people walking across the border every day for their daily needs. You have millions of Nepalese working in India. All these factors will have to be dealt with not in an esoteric way. There are human problems involved, we have to ensure that the citizens of the two countries are not affected by any action, their lives are not disrupted. And I hope that whatever decisions are taken in the future will also look at what is practical. The presence of Indian troops at Kalapani, which is strategically located on the Indo-China-Nepal junction, is another contentious issue for political groups. What is the Indian stand on that? Do you plan to withdraw troops from there? The issue came up initially about 20 years ago. Indians haven't walked into a piece of contested territory. This was part of British India. We inherited it. There is no Indo-Tibetan Border Police presence there. As Indians see, there is no reason why the ITBP should not be there on what has been Indian territory for the last 150 to 200 years. Now, there is a claim that this in fact is Nepalese territory, thanks to the source of the Mahakali river being wrongly depicted. I personally feel that Indians have been completely fair about it. They have not rejected this out of hand. They have said all right, if that is what you feel, let us go and look at historical records, maps and everything, and decide. That process is underway. So to simply say there are Indian troops in Kalapani and that is a bone of contention distorts the picture. I mean there are vast areas in the Himalayas, there was no Indian police or any military presence till 1959 or 1962. That did not in any way make that territory any less Indian. Where we wish to put our troops at any given point of time is our sovereign choice. As to the status of Kalapani, it is inherited from the British. India is prepared to discuss that with Nepal on the basis of facts. The Kukri Factor \| Part 1 \| Part 2 \| Part 3 More specials Photographs: Josy Joseph Page design: Dominic Xavier Mail us your response
HOME \| NEWS \| CRICKET \| MONEY \| SPORTS \| MOVIES \| CHAT \| BROADBAND \| TRAVEL ASTROLOGY \| NEWSLINKS \| BOOK SHOP \| MUSIC SHOP \| GIFT SHOP \| HOTEL BOOKINGS AIR/RAIL \| WEDDING \| ROMANCE \| WEATHER \| WOMEN \| E-CARDS \| EDUCATION HOMEPAGES \| FREE MESSENGER \| FREE EMAIL \| CONTESTS \| FEEDBACK