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The Rediff Interview/Mufti Mohammed Sayeed

'Involve Pak in talks for lasting solution'

Clad in his usual white kurta pyjama, Mufti Mohammed Sayeed greets you with a smile. The former Union home minister in the National Front government of Vishwanath Pratap Singh in the late eighties has not change much. He has the same disarming disposition, the same intense eyes and the same animated gesticulations while emphasising a point during an interview. Only the lines on his face are a little sharper.

"What's the purpose of your visit?'' he asks. Apparently, too many things are on his mind. You remind him that he agreed to an interview on Kashmir. He is quick to apologise, underlining that he was expecting a lady journalist.

''Let's begin,'' he said, settling in the sofa. He took a deep breath as the tape-recorder was switched on, mulled over the question momentarily and began talking. Excerpts from the interview with Tara Shankar Sahay:

What do you think about the demand for autonomy for Jammu and Kashmir?

First, let me point out a few ground realities in the state. The Farooq Abdullah government has failed miserably on all fronts. Corruption has scaled unheard of heights. Every job is on sale and I am not exaggerating. There is nepotism of the worst sort.

Disillusioned Kashmiris don't look towards the state government for succour anymore; they know it is not going to come. The administration is non-existent, so there is no question of providing a healing touch to beleaguered Kashmiris. There are no panchayats, no local bodies.

Funds the Centre provides J&K are pocketed by the powers-that-be in collusion with middlemen. Expenditure is non-productive. When Farooq became chief minister in 1996, his first priority was to buy an aircraft, costing Rs 300 million, and then a golf course. He went on to have filmi shows. It did not bother him that thousands were being killed in the state, both innocent people and militants. He should have gone door-to-door, to provide comfort and help to Kashmiri widows and orphans. Instead, he went on foreign trips.

Despite a call for boycott of elections by militants and the Hurriyat, Kashmiris voted for the restoration of peace so that a government could come to power to attend to their problems and needs. But the Farooq Abdullah government just couldn't deliver the goods. It was then that the Central government realised the ground realities. It realised that militants with their suicide squads and specific targets were proving to be too hot to handle and innocent Kashmiris were being caught in the crossfire of militants and security forces.

They told the Central government that they wanted relief from the trauma. That's when the Central government began talking about a dialogue for a solution to the Kashmir problem. Prime Minister A B Vajpayee and Union Home Minister L K Advani said the government was willing to talk to the Hurriyat, provided that discussions were held within the framework of the Constitution.

This is ridiculous, as you cannot set conditions before the dialogue starts. Farooq wanted to sabotage the dialogue between the government and Hurriyat. It was to sabotage the process of reconciliation and dialogue that he demanded autonomy.

Why have you insisted that Pakistan's inclusion in the dialogue is necessary for a lasting solution to the Kashmir problem?

The government, including the prime minister and home minister, is anxious that the Kashmir problem must be resolved peacefully. While returning from his European tour, Vajpayee said aboard his aircraft that the government would continue the dialogue with the Hurriyat. If this is done, you have to talk to the other party involved.

When the Hurriyat informally received the government offer for dialogue on Kashmir, it spoke to Pakistani high commissioner Afsir Qazi Jahangir for three hours. The high commissioner told them that if they were satisfied with any solution from talks with the Indian government, his country would have no objection.

If we succeed in evolving a solution with the people of Kashmir, it should be our diplomatic effort to involve Pakistan. There is no harm in that. The solution will be quite lasting. You have to consider that whatever the situation between the two countries, Vajpayee had to resort to bus diplomacy to go to Lahore for talks with former Pakistan prime minister Nawaz Sharief, who was compelled to receive him with open arms. It was a matter of compulsion for both. The process of globalisation is in play all over the world and the situation will compel General Pervez Musharraf to accept the Kashmir solution.

Where will the issue of autonomy for J&K proceed?

Of course, the people of J&K have to play a prominent role for an amicable solution. That is a the first priority. The fire raging in the state has to be extinguished. Then there will have to be a national consensus. Right now, the Bharatiya Janata Party and Congress are against autonomy for J&K. That is the fate of the autonomy resolution in Parliament.

The BJP says autonomy cannot be granted as it will encourage other states to make similar demands and the Congress says it cannot go beyond the Sheikh Abdullah-Indira Gandhi Accord of 1975.

That is why Pakistan has to be involved for a lasting solution.

If the government agrees to carry forward the dialogue with the Hurriyat, how can there be a cessation of hostilities between Indian security forces and militants?

Everybody has seen the clout of the Hurriyat in J&K. It is their responsibility to persuade the militants to stop attacks on Indian security forces when a dialogue is on. Then, Kashmiris will have a stake in the peace process.

Was the criticism of External Affairs Minister Jaswant Singh for accompanying released militants, including Maulana Masood Azhar to Kandahar, in the wake of the Indian Airlines Flight IC 814 hijack, justified?

He alone cannot be blamed. It was the collective decision of the Vajpayee government to release three militants and if Jaswant accompanied them to Kandahar, it must have been part of the deal. Anybody in Jaswant's place would have done that. It was an emotional issue for the nation.

You too are said to have released some militants from jail when your daughter Dr Rubaiya was kidnapped by militants a decade back?

At that time, not much was known about what the militants would do. Also, Farooq Abdullah had released about 150 militants and I was advised that the release of some militants was the best course. It is not a question of my daughter or anyone else's daughter. The circumstances warranted action, which the then government followed.

What about the demand that Ladakh be separated from J&K?

These people are following the dictates of some at the Centre, that if autonomy is granted to J&K, they will be culturally submerged. But that is not so.

What about the feeling that autonomy to J&K will open the floodgates for demands from other states, which will endanger India's unity and integrity?

No, Kashmir is an international problem. The government of India does not accept this Line of Control and also says that Pakistan-occupied Kashmir is a part of India. Pakistan is party to the Kashmir dispute. J&K's problem is special. In the northeast, particularly Nagaland and Mizoram, the government is trying to settle insurgency through dialogue, involving all parties concerned.

Hence, in J&K's case, the involvement of Pakistan is inevitable.

If the Vajpayee government is keen to resolve the Kashmir issue, how do you explain Advani's assertion that discussions should be within the framework of the Constitution?

All this is posturing. In today's world, disputes have to be solved through dialogue and there is little place for gun culture. But the discussions have to be reasonable and cannot be one-sided. Nothing is sacrosanct in the Constitution. The government has formed a commission to review it. Paramount is the people's sovereignty. The negotiating table for the three parties concerned regarding J&K is the only way out.

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