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The Rediff Interview/ Gary L Ackerman

'We don't see Pakistan as an ally at all'

Meeting Congressman Gary L Ackerman, the vociferous Indian supporter in the US House of Representatives, was not easy. He was in Bombay this week in connection with a two-day US investment summit and had little time for anything else.

It took Special Correspondent Syed Firdaus Ashraf several calls and some name-dropping before Ackerman's special assistant Narayan D Keshavan -- a former Indian journalist in New York -- allowed him time with the man, popularly referred to as 'Mr India' on Capitol Hill.

Ackerman has little doubt that the United States no longer considers Pakistan its ally. He said things had changed in the post-Cold War era.

There was always strong support for Pakistan in the US state department during the Cold War years. Has anything changed recently?

In the Cold War era while India made a conscious effort to remain neutral, Pakistan allied itself with America. They (the Pakistanis) were very useful in arming Afghanistan as we fought a proxy war against Communism. This generated a lot of goodwill for Pakistan. But now all that has changed. The Cold War is over, the Soviet Union is no more and Communism is on the wane.

While India has proved to be a vibrant democracy, the Pakistani people celebrate when their democratic institutions are razed. The dismissal of the Nawaz Sharief government is an example of the fragility of democracy in that country. In India, on the other hand, millions participate in free and fair elections. A free press and a transparent system of law are firmly entrenched in the country.

Have incidents like last week's bombings in Islamabad forced America to reconsider Pakistan as its ally?

We don't see Pakistan as an ally at all. That notion disappeared a long time ago. There were people who had favoured Pakistan because of historical reasons, but those things do not exist anymore. At the same time, India's good work in sorting out differences with the US on different issues has helped.

The US was a big supporter of then Pakistan dictator General Zia-ul Haq. Another general is now in charge in Islamabad. Do you see any similarities between the two situations?

No, as I told you, the situation has changed now. We are very concerned about Nawaz Sharief's well-being.

The United Nations intervened after East Timor's referendum for independence. Do you think that could happen in Kashmir too?

I don't know whether the UN intervened in East Timor's referendum. That was the process which was agreed upon by all parties and the UN decision was aimed at protecting the lives of innocent people who were being slaughtered by the military. So that was a humanitarian method. The important point to remember is that the United Nations did not decide the outcome of East Timor. The outcome was decided by a process that was agreed upon by all the parties concerned.

I do not believe the United Nations has the right to interfere in domestic affairs of any state or a republic. That is not the role of the United Nations. In the same way, I feel the dispute over Kashmir is between India and Pakistan and it has to be resolved on a bilateral basis.

Now that the deadline for the extradition of Osama Bin Laden has expired, what US action do you foresee against him and Afghanistan?

I think we are going to see sanctions, and hopefully that will be effective. We have to isolate those nations that support and shelter terrorists. Pakistan should take a note of it. This is the intention of the world community.

Do you think India and the US can together counter Islamic terrorism?

I think terrorism is the concern of the entire world. And as the US Congress delegate to the United Nations, this will be the cornerstone of my discussions there. Certainly, the entire world community must work together to counter Islamic terrorism, especially the United States and India.

Do you think Islamic militancy is the new threat confronting the world?

Oh, absolutely! It's not only the state of Jammu and Kashmir. You can see that happening at many places. This is part of a major regional effort to Islamise the area. I think the world has seen this kind of aggression before. Only religious fanatics this time have replaced the megalomaniacs of World War II. I think the entire human community must take note of this and try to prevent it.

You have been quoted as saying that Pakistan must cut its ties with the Taliban. Could you elaborate?

I think the US has laid down a marker. If that does not happen, the US will get tough with Pakistan on this issue.

Do you think Pakistan should be declared a terrorist state?

I feel any state that foments terrorism, participates in terrorism, allows terrorists to take refuge and does nothing to stop terrorism should be declared a terrorist state. If they do nothing to stop terrorism, that means they give their consent by virtue of silence. And that consent makes them a partner in the act of terrorism.

Do you think the Clinton government has been fair to the Indian government during its tenure?

The tenure is still not over. We had some disagreements -- ups and downs in our relations. I think, they had high expectations from India. We all have high expectations from India. And on some issues -- especially non-nuclear -- India is making great progress. I think we are going to whip down some trade barriers and India is going to make great progress.

Now that the CTBT bill has been defeated in the Senate, what in your opinion must the Indian government do? Sign the treaty or reject it?

I think India has to make a decision which is in its national interest. But if you want my view, I feel it would be a wonderful strategic move for India to sign it. And then, of course, it can tell the US that look we have signed the treaty, but you haven't (laughs).

Photographs: Jewella C Miranda

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