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January 12, 1999
ELECTIONS '98
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The law of the land should not have any caste or creed, race or religion attached to itHow Readers reacted to Saisuresh Sivaswamy's last columnDate sent: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 15:57:51 +0000From: Dilpesh <Dilpesh@rocketmail.com> Subject: Saisuresh Sivaswamy's article on saffron dogs Another of that pseudo-secular nonsense that we have all got used to. He brings Parsis and Jews into the debate: does he not know that Parsis and Jews have lived in peace and security in India for over a thousand years? They were persecuted in their homelands, and the only place they could come to for shelter was India, with its tolerant Hindu majority. It is a credit to Hindus that the Parsi religion survives to this day. The Hindus never forced the Parsis and Jews to convert. The Christians, on the other hand, do not have such a good track record. They invaded North America, South America, Africa and Australia, and murdered many of the indigenous peoples of these lands, and converted millions of them to Christianity. We need to take these things into account when understanding why the situation in Gujarat has happened. The Christians are up to their old tricks again, this time using missionaries and abusing the secular status of India. Hindus are indeed extremely tolerant, as proved by the fact that Zoroastrianism and Judaism survive in India. But the Parsis and Jews did not aim to convert Hindus, so why should the Christians be so desperate to convert others? Why can't we all be who we are and live in peace? Hindus are not to blame for this situation. If Christians behaved in a more dignified way, like the Parsis and Jews have for hundreds of years, then we would not have these problems.
Dilpesh
Hi Saisuresh, First of all, if you call RSS saffron dogs, it's not going to hurt its strength or fame. It just shows what a low-class person YOU are, please mind it. Secondly, even though you call it a communal & brutal organisation, you should keep in mind that its strength is growing day by day. It's not because of their ideologies, it's because of the threats from SECULAR people to HINDUS. You may feel it's a mob of illiterates, but it's not the fact. It's an organisation, which is very well known for its discipline. I am a graduate, I feel PROUD to be associated with the RSS. When Christians & Muslims can be associated with their religious organisations, why shouldn't we? Because of SECULAR people like you the RSS is growing day by day, even educated people feel that they need some organisation like the RSS to support their community. One more thing is that it's not the matter of the number of Christians in India, it's the matter of conversions. When Hindus reconvert Christians, you feel that minority rights are under threat? Why don't you feel the same when Christians convert Hindus? Why don't you feel that it's a threat to Hinduism? You talk about Muslims & their number, since in the past the Hindu community didn't open its mouth against conversions, the Muslim population grew in India. Where were Muslims in India, before the Mughals? So we are learning from our mistakes! That's why we oppose conversions. You talk about the services provided by Christians in India. I really appreciate it unless their aim is conversion. If they are so attached with humankind, ask them to serve without conversions. Once you ban conversions, all these services will stop, please note. The main AIM of the social services provided by missionaries is just nothing but CONVERSION. Even the kindergarten kid knows that. You know from where the funds come for these missionaries? From ROME! And no religion in this world is so broadminded to spend money on people without expecting returns. You know, one of our tenants offered me money every month, if I was ready for conversion. Sai, I want to ask one thing: for one month I have been watching you people bombard about destroyed churches! Surprisingly I didn't notice even a single note about the temples destroyed by Christians during the same riots. Please don't tell me that it hasn't happened, come with me, I will show you! Regds,
Raghu
This article is one-sided. The author has not gone into the depths of what Christianity is all about in India. He should stay in a place like Kottayam, which is Christian-dominated, and investigate what is happening there before he writes such reports. The things happening in India now are the following : 1. Massive conversions of Hindus into Christians by force (giving them money, food, or threatening them if nothing works). There are a lot of poor Christians who get no help from the churches. 2. Threatening the existing Christians if they do not obey the priests (by not allowing the burial of the dead, not christening the babies, etc). 3. Christian families to provide a daughter to become a sister if they need support from the church. 4. Convent schools forcing students to attend church during the lunch break. Much more is happening.
It would be really great if some press reporters take up the job of hunting down the TRUTH and bringing it to light instead of simply criticising the BJP or some other party.
Sir, When will our pseudo-secular journalists stop crying foul about the majority religion in India and start looking at facts? During my college days, when I was studying the Indian Constitution, I clearly remember having read that it is unconstitutional to convert individuals or groups using force, offering money, and so on. People who break the law of the land are not the culprits, the ones who are trying to bring this form of activity into the limelight are the "bad guys". No one condones violence, but who started the violence in Gujarat? I completely agree with Mr Patel when he says that the media only talks about the violence carried out by the majority, but chooses to ignore the acts of the minorities. Mr Saisuresh Sivaswamy points out that the Christian missions are carrying out more social work in India than the Hindu majority. Why does he conveniently ignore the fact that most of these missions are funded by their parent organisations in the rich, Western nations of the world? Also, isn't social service supposed to be selfless? Why do the people who benefit from these services have to pay a price by converting to Christianity? Didn't the Hindu majority in India give shelter over thousands of years to people seeking refuge from religious persecution in other parts of the world? Were these people ever asked to pay a price for this? Did they have to give up their faith? In fact religious minorities ruled over India for the better part of the second millennium. What does that say about our culture and our society? I would like to ask the likes of Mr Sivaswamy to stop using hyperbole beyond reason. You insult the intelligence of almost a billion Indians, you insult their culture, their beliefs, their history and heritage by equating what is going on in India today with Hitler's Germany. You are a journalist and your work is being read by people all over the world. You should be doing a more responsible job than this. Shame on you on this particular account! I would also like to ask these same "pseudo-secular" journalists what they understand by the word "secular"? Why is it that none of you ever talks about a uniform civil code in India ? If you are truly secular-minded, you should be running a crusade for such a code in the country. Why is it that every religion in India has a different status and a different law? The law of the land should not have any caste, creed, race or religion attached to it. There are many secular countries in the world with a uniform civil code and they function pretty well. If the political parties in the country are exploiting the situation to win votes, don't blame the majority community for it, instead, use your "fire-brand" journalism to expose those politicians.
Manjiri Patkar
No doubt, the fringe Hindu elements perpetrating sectarian violence are dead wrong, now or ever before. They must be denounced unequivocally, but without the political baiting of the shameful BJP-hate brigade fanning fire to extract political mileage. There are good people in all communities who see reason, persuasion and dialogue as a way to resolve differences. Dare I say that the vast majority in Sivaswamy's despised "Parivar" who support Hindutva in Bharat are so committed too. Perhaps tone-deaf, Sivaswamy fails to acknowledge even in passing that BJP leaders A B Vajpayee and L K Advani have repeatedly and categorically denounced the Hindu fringe (or Saffron Dogs, if you prefer) for the Gujarat incidents. The pious Sivaswamy fails to admit that fringes exist amidst the Muslims and Christians alike -- disproportionately more than the fanatic Hindus he grieves upon. Amidst Muslims, fanatics have run amuck the world over. There is not a single Islamic nation on the face of the earth that is tolerant of any faith other that its own. The ignorant Sivaswamy has perhaps not heard of the "Christian" missionaries and evangelical zealots in Africa, Asia, and elsewhere with CIA moneybags. Why else would someone go goo-goo ga-ga over how the sage Christians will eradicate education and healthcare ills by converting poor Hindus of Mother India? India is a unique pillar of tolerance for disparate communities living amidst a vast Hindu majority. Ironically, that trait has been also the undoing of this land, for it lured the foreigners to rule India for centuries. More than any so-called Saffron Dog, it is the ambivalent political descendants of British divide-and-rule raj that will cost India dearly. So, before you talk too long, Mr Sivaswamy, imagine if you went to convert a Christian in the West or a Muslim in the Middle East to become a sage Hindu.
Tarun Seam
What have you done worthy in your miserable life to accuse the BJP or the Sangh Parivar? Sick people like you try to create problems for personal benefits instead of solving problems. Keep your fiction stories to yourself.
I had heard about ignorance being bliss. But I am lost for words to describe the opinions you express in the article. The author shows his ignorance in the matter by jumping to the conclusion that innocent Christian missions were unnecessarily attacked by the HJM. He shows his willingness to paint the Christian missionaries as gentle goodies and the HJM folk as rowdies. All this while he blatantly refuses to even think a little about the cause of the HJM uprising. It seems to be a hobby of the author to find wrong in other people's deeds. Why is it that you choose to pick up your pen only when the minorities are the affected lot? Where were you when the seeds of the violence were being sown? I recommend the author go through the columns of other writers today on Rediff. And as a word of advice, please do not jump to conclusions based on lopsided views. The golden rule to be remembered is 'Every event has a cause'. As the veteran Gandhian mentions in his column today, the incidents since Christmas are not the beginning of the problem, but its climax. Finally, to the editors of Rediff: I strongly appeal to you to keep the 'educated illiterates', such as the writer of the column in discussion here, away from publishing on this prestigious newspaper. It is correct to allow individuals to express varied opinions, but not at the cost of painting false impressions (borne either out of ignorance or bias). Every profession has a list of items that would be deemed unethical or criminal. In the profession of journalism, writing biased and inflammatory articles (whether out of ignorance to the complete picture, or out of bias), would be a crime beyond compare.
Sunil
Saisuresh, Your article sadly reflects the poor level of journalistic professionalism followed by the Indian English-medium dailies. Any investigative reporter would not have failed to note that it is not the VHP or BJP (or the so-called saffron front) which has attacked the Christians. Rather, it's the other way around. For example, it was the Christian missionaries who tried to give a communal touch to the rape of the nuns. An orchestrated effort to paint this to be the result of anti-Christian policies of Hindu organisations such as the VHP and BJP was attempted, and duly publicised not only all over India, but all over the world. The facts, however, tell an altogether different story. It was predominantly Christians who attacked the nuns. Nor was the region from where the nuns were attacked a BJP-governed region. But, of course, facts be damned; it is the BJP and all Hindu organisations which end up being maligned. Going on to the more recent hungama over the attacks on Christian missionaries in Gujarat. It turned out that these attacks were retaliatory in nature, after the so-called pious missionaries had attacked Hindu temples. Magnifying what are essentially minor incidents, as attacks against Christians are an easy way to internationalise and communalise a small issue, this is precisely what the English-media has been so successful in doing. In orchestrating such trumped-up charges against Hindus and Hindu organisations, journalists such as you just show your anti-Hindu bias. What is even sadder is that such articles like yours do a grave injustice to people like us Kashmiris who are the true victims of religious persecution. Internationalising the suffering of Kashmiri Hindus is, however, not high on the list of concerns of you and your ilk. Regards,
Rajender Razdan
Sir, Why is always the saffron in the wrong? Is it because of our mentality or is it the reality? I think this is because of our mentality. For any communal issues few names like the BJP, RSS, Bajrang Dal, Shiv Sena etc will be in headlines with red marks on them. Why is it so? I will ask you only one question: "Do you really know what's happening in Gujarat or in Mangalore?" If your answer is yes, I appreciate your work and the effort to write the truth. If your answer is no, please don't write this political fantasy bullshit sitting in home or office. Why don't you open up your eyes, go to the field, and write some truth? Many problems may be solved thus and all the religions can live in peace. I apologise for any hard feelings.
Ranga
Saisuresh & Co are either forgetting or do not want to take note of a few points. Otherwise the article would have been more balanced. 1. The issue in the Dangs area is really about forced conversion. And this has been happening in India for hundreds of years. This has to do with the caste system and the treatment of the dalits, but it has more to do with the missionaries and their unethical ways of conversion. I have read that almost all of Goa's Christians were made Christian by simply throwing a piece of bread in the wells from where people used to drink water. These methods are definitely unethical and must be condemned or retaliated against. 2. This is happening not only in India, but even in South America. All the people were forced to Christianity. This is a well-known fact. The Spanish not only destroyed the culture but a wealth of knowledge in South America. So before beating the RSS and Hindu organisations, please look with an open mind and eyes and you will find that more atrocities have been and are being done by the missionaries -- now they are being paid back. I strongly oppose any violence, but those things have to be stopped some time. Otherwise, tomorrow you will find that Islam and Christianity are the only religions left in the world. I don't understand why we never learn from history?
Shrirang Nene
Yet another anti-BJP, anti-RSS article. It stinks!
Kailasam
Mr Sivaswamy, Enough of your nonsense on Rediff. Your articles have been persistently anti-BJP and anti-Parivar, while at the same time trying to show an unholy alliance between the two. If your articles are so filled with philanthropic ideas, why don't you talk a little about the not-so-holy alliance between the CWC and its constituents to the Christian bodies in India? Let's deal with your claim that the BJP and the Sangh Parivar are raising this issue for votes. The Sangh Parivar is not involved in the politics of India. And from when did the Hindu Jagran Manch/Bajrang Dal start constituting the entire Sangh Parivar? Since 1925 this organisation has been doing social work without any support or funding from anyone in the world, no wonder it is called a volunteer force. Then how can you say that it is carrying out an agenda? It is not run by any priests, bishops, or any multi-millionaire personality that any agenda would be carried out. It is run by selfless volunteers. What does that tell you? The Christian missions in India are run by bishops of the Western society, to whom you bow down. So which organisation is liable to carry out an agenda? A volunteer force or a full-fledged funded missionary organisation from the West? Second, the BJP is not controlled by the Parivar, hence the government is not controlled by them. So don't try to link the two and make them look like some evil allies out to destroy India and its secular fabric. There is no secular fabric in the first place in India. Otherwise, why would you write so caustically against one Hindu organisation that has been doing social work in India, but under complete lack of advertisement? The Christian missionaries go out to places, convert in the name of the Holy Spirit, and then advertise that look, we have given them food, clothing and god. What kind of religious practice is this? These poor people are ignorant of religion. They are pagans (in your language), and the Christian missionaries take advantage of these ignorant people. As for the social work that you are counting, let me tell you that the Sangh Parivar is responsible for running far greater number of schools in different villages of India under the banner of Vanvasi Kalyan Ashram. The volunteers are paid only Rs 300-500/month. While the missionaries are paid in dollars per convert plus the benefits and perks. Why do you think they are paid so much? For social activity?! Who are you kidding, Mr Saisuresh? Go and tell these lies to someone who is gullible. Show me one convert to Christianity from Islam in India. Is there even one such instance? Why don't Christian missionaries go to Pakistan, it is much more poor than India? The reason is the followers of both religions are as deadly. Whereas the tribals in India are easy targets, no education, no religion. And they are Hindus. It is all a numbers game for Christians and Muslims. Nothing else matters to them. Grow and grow in numbers in the name of one god, one religion, and one son/prophet. Be homogenised. Or else be confined to eternal hell and wait for Judgment Day.
Sanjay
The anti-Sangh Parivar views of Saisuresh are well known to Rediff readers. I would advise him to read another report in the same edition: 'Veteran Gandhians demand ban on conversions'.
Sunil Kumar Saisuresh, It is everybody's knowledge, including the Western media's, that the attacks on the Christian community had no sanction from the ruling BJP. Yet you want us to believe that the BJP wants to consolidate "Hindu" votes. I shall let you know how the voting pattern is, in the limited circle that I know closely. My parents were conservative Nehru supporters, voting for his daughter even after the Emergency and moving to the Janata Dal in the late Eighties. To date, they have voted only for the best candidate from the Basavanagudi constituency in Bangalore, regardless of the party. My cousins are rabid Congress haters, like me. Does not matter who it is headed by, a Roman Catholic or a Dalit or a Brahmin. I have always voted, like them, for the strongest Opposition party all the while. I hate to admit that I voted for V P Singh and his party even after Mandal. Only after Narasimha Rao fell did I shift my favour to the BJP, and mind you, Babri was long since over. I can vouch that this fact pretty much remains the same for most of my educated friends, relatives and colleagues. So, if you are under the impression that the BJP can fool the middle class/Hindus into a vote bank, you are fooling yourself. The BJP does not have to create any consolidation. As long as there are scumbags for the Congress and as long as riffraff elements get together under the garb of Dalit unification, the BJP is going to rule the roost, Babri or no Babri. We don't need an Einstein to figure out that Hindu society has woken up to oppression against its own members, there are corrective actions being undertaken for the past fifty years, and more will come, as society gets more educated. We don't need missionaries to provide "social justice", let them provide education and health care alone, if they are God-sent liberators as they claim to be. You are used to the typical Tamilian mindset that anything against Hindi chalega. For you, secularism is a jingo word, and the BJP stands for Hindi imposition. Your selectively secular brain does not think about the long-term impacts of proselytisation. Your fused brain does not differentiate between individual rights for freedom of religion and an organised Mafia-like missionary machinery that converts entire provinces with foreign money.
Srinivas Murthy
Mr Saisuresh Sivaswamy, The issues/incidents you mentioned have nothing to do with the BJP's electoral reverses. If that were the case, these incidents would have taken place in AP/Karnataka. Why in Gujarat? All these incidents were happening for the last 50 years in many parts of the country like Kerala and the North-East. But only now are opposition parties trying to blow out of proportion small incidents, b'cos the BJP is the ruling party. Why don't you present facts like who started the riots, how many temples were destroyed, etc? Because of you guys, this is getting so much publicity that even Pakistan's parliament adopted a unanimous resolution condemning attacks on Christians in India. I was approached at least a couple of times here in the US for conversion. In India it is even worse, b'cos they are doing it on illiterate and poor people. What do you think will happen if the VHP starts mass conversions in the US? Will the government and the majority community tolerate it? Today everything, including the sacking of a navy chief, is blamed on the BJP's communal attitude. Very soon you will start blaming the BJP for the US attack on Iraq.
Raghu
Saffron dogs! You should not use such language in print. Have you ever used such a term for any other group/community/religion, i.e. for Sikhs, Muslims or Christians? If so, let me know when and where.
M K Upadhyaya
Saisuresh Sivaswamy seems to be very much biased towards Christians. Although some criticisms regarding the VHP are true, he is trying to completely ignore the problem of conversions. I'm a witness to a conversion, where the victim was converted when he had failed his exams. They said that all his 20 years of faith in Hindu gods did not even let him pass an exam! They try to convert people who are in a weak state and I hate that.
Ravi
Mr Sivaswamy, Vanakkam. "Before the Parivar tries to turn the Hindus against a community that is in the forefront of social service, it will have to do better at providing the same services." Before you sit in an a/c room and write on the Internet, let me ask you how much you are involved in social service? It is easy to sit and write, and it hardly takes any effort. The Sangh Parivar is doing its best, without any money being poured from outside like for Christian missionaries. And who are you to compare what services the missionaries or the Sangh Parivar are doing, when we know that you are not doing anything.
Nagaraj
It's hard to take Saisuresh Sivaswamy (God knows where he showed up from) seriously when he starts out by name-calling. This is probably the kind of language used in Dharavi, so please Saisuresh, take your trash there. BTW, I'm not trying to justify the attacks on Christians in India... |
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