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The Rediff Interview/Cho Ramaswamy

'The greatest weakness of the BJP govt was that they gave the impression of a group of people not in command'

During the last few years, we have witnessed several crises. Which President, according to you, was impartial?

I think R Venkataraman was very impartial, every time.

It is quite clear that the Congress with just 140 members is struggling to get the numbers. Do you expect splits in several parties, which were in alliance with the BJP?

If the President invites Sonia Gandhi even without her proving her majority before him, yes, there will be splits. The Congress would try to split the Samata Party, the Biju Janata Dal, the Akalis, perhaps even the Telugu Desam Party. And Ramdoss's party, Pattali Makkal Kattchi may cross over. So, these are the possibilities of Sonia getting a majority. But without presidential help, they will not be able to do it.

If the Congress comes to power this way, how long do you expect them to survive?

I don't think the Congress will run the government for a long time. They may run it for some time and then go for elections.

When do you expect another general election? In 1999 itself?

I don't know. It would depend perhaps on the November elections to the Andhra and Karnataka assemblies. The Congress may wait and see how they would fair. If it is in their favour, they will go in for a general election immediately. But if the vote in those states does not help them, they may delay it further.

Will they be in a position to take such decisions? Will they last that long with so many contradictions around them?

Now they are coming together for a particular cause. Unless Mulayam acts, they will survive, I think.

Why is it that the BJP has again become an untouchable?

It is not an untouchable. The DMK has touched them. Chautala has retouched them.

The BJP was in power. Still they could not lure the smaller parties to their side.

Alright. There are 18 parties with the BJP. They are all together. With the Congress, there are 22. That's all. I do not think the BJP is an untouchable.

But the party in power could not attract the others. Is it because they are considered communal?

That would be a reason. I don't rule it out but that would not be the only reason. They might have thought, anyway the BJP is going to lose. The compulsions at the regional level might have dictated matters.

Is it not surprising that the Left and the Congress came together although their regional compulsions are different?

The Left has to do something every year so that they will be able to pass a resolution in the next year saying, we committed a 'historic blunder' last year! They have to have some material for that so that they can pass a resolution next year that 'what we did in 1999 April was a historic blunder'.

Are they going to do to India what the Communists did to Russia and many other Communist countries which ultimately disintegrated? Every time a new government is formed, they say that their sole aim is to topple the government.

They won't be able to do it because their support base is in Kerala and West Bengal alone. They will not be able to achieve that.

The moment the Vajpayee government was sworn in, Dr Swamy and the Left parties took a vow that they would topple the government.

Even now, you can see one peculiar thing in the situation. Swamy is a friend of China. The Chinese ambassador met Jayalalitha. The Agni missile if it is targeted only on Pakistan, even as a defensive measure, need not have a 2000 kilometre range. The Communists were very angry with George when he criticised China. The Chinese were also angry with him for having called them the number one enemy. Now all these forces have joined together.

But was it right on the part of the defence minister to call a country the number one enemy?

It is a fact but he should not have said it openly. He should have exercised restraint.

How do you describe the way George Fernandes conducted himself as the defence minister?

Apart from this faux pas, I don't think there is anything wrong in the way he functioned. Even on the Vishnu Bhagwat issue, he has been quite transparent about it. The government has been transparent. But what the Opposition demanded was not transparency but nudity. It was an indecent demand.

What will Dr Swamy do now that he has achieved what he had wanted?

He would be very glad with what he did. He would have a great sense of satisfaction of having brought down a ministry that did not accommodate him. He was definitely one of the main players in this drama. Of course, it suited the Congress- Communist purposes. They might have thought that they were exploiting him and he would have thought that he was exploiting them.

How do you describe the friendship of the bitter enemies turned friends, Jayalalitha and Dr Swamy?

She has use for Swamy now. The day he is not able to deliver her demands through the new government, he would become the next auditor! The treatment that was given to the auditor would be given to him.

Will Sonia be able to meet her demands like the dismissal of the DMK government, transfer of her cases from the special courts, etc?

Very, very difficult. She may not be able to carry on with her demands as vociferously as she did earlier because the alternative is elections. There may be some silent operations.

Do you see the BJP coming back to power with majority in the next elections?

Now the BJP has gained a lot of sympathy. How long it would stay, I do not know. If there is an election now, it will be very advantageous to the BJP. After some time, people may forget all this. Many new things will crop up. One can't say whom it will help then.

How do you assess the 13-month rule of the BJP government?

They have done some very good things like settling the Cauvery water dispute, the Pokhran blasts, the Agni missile, their efforts to get the Insurance Regulatory Authority Bill passed, a Budget which has been welcomed by almost all sections, bringing the Kashmir crisis under control, the normalisation of relations with Pakistan, etc. One can't say the problem has been solved in Kashmir but it has vastly improved. They have done all this. The problem with them was, they were seen bending backwards to keep Jayalalitha with them. That tarnished their image. But now because of what has happened, the people are prepared to excuse them. They stood up to her till the last minute.

No other failures? What about the attacks on the minorities?

That can't be called the failure of the central government. There have been several communal riots and several caste riots. Why should we look at these incidents alone on the worst abominable lines? What about the caste killings? They have been happening regularly. What is happening in Bihar? What has happened in the southern districts in Tamil Nadu? During the Congress regime, there was almost genocide of Sikhs.

The greatest weakness of the BJP government was, all through the 13 months, that they gave the impression of a group of people not in command. That is a very big disadvantage for a government. And this situation was created by their allies particularly Jayalalitha. There were demands from the other allies too but none behaved as badly as Jayalalitha.

It was rumoured that you went to Delhi at the behest of Advani and Vajpayee and they asked you to convince the DMK and the TMC to vote for the government. Is it true?

I did talk to both the DMK and the TMC. I do not want to say at whose behest I did it.

You could convince the DMK.

I can say this, I failed to persuade the TMC. In spite of several attempts, I failed.

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