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The Rediff Election Interview/ S Gurumurthy

'The BJP is being dishonest when it says Ayodhya is not an issue'

SGurumurthy, the RSS ideologue and president of the Swadeshi Jagran Manch, led the anti-Enron agitation two years ago and has been vociferous against the nature of economic liberalisation pursued by the country. His prescription is for internal liberalisation first, along with the protection and development of local industry.

Gurumurthy spoke to V Ram recently on some aspects of the present political and economic situation in India.

The BJP has always projected itself to be against corruption in politics. In this context, is the party's alliance with Jayalalitha's AIADMK justified when the state government is pursuing several corruption charges against her?

In certain regions in India, certain issues deserve dominant consideration. Take for example Jammu and Kashmir. Nobody dare ask whether Farooq Abdullah is corrupt or not. Many of the chief ministers there have been corrupt. The question of integration with India is the main issue when it comes to J and K, because that overrides all other considerations.

No party can have the anti-corruption plank above everything else. Tamil Nadu has a situation similar to Punjab and the North East. The Dravidian separatist movement has invaded TN politics, and the association of regional parties with national parties can delocalise interests in favour of Tamil Nadu joining the national mainstream.

The BJP has forged partnerships with parties that have acquired a dubious image, such as the Loktantrik Congress in UP and the AIADMK in Tamil Nadu. Would you consider this to be a good example of 'strange bedfellows'?

I would only say that the BJP's alliances are less strange vis-a-vis those of other parties.

Hasn't the BJP been opportunistic in forging these alliances?

No. The Congress, the CPI-M and the Janata Dal are opportunists. They fight elections against one another and then unite after the poll only to keep power. Isn't that a fraud on the people?

The BJP spelt out a clear pre-poll alliance and this cannot be called opportunist. If there has been a compromise on principles, the people can reject it. The BJP is not trying to forge alliances after the poll.

How is the BJP a party with a 'difference' then?

When there are partners, it is possible that one can influence or impart certain good traits to the other. What do you do in a situation that prevails here? Should the BJP wait to form the government till the last man (for a majority) is elected on its own platform? Alliances become necessary.

The BJP has commitment at certain levels and this will force the others (partners) to behave better. This is a test and challenge for the BJP.

What has been the RSS's stand on these alliances?

The RSS has viewed the earlier BJP alliance with the Bahujan Samaj Party very favourably as it will have contributed to Hindu consolidation and the national identity. Here, the alliance (with the AIADMK) will take the ex-separatist Dravidian mind into the national mainstream.

With the BJP having so many partners, is it going to be like the United Front?

This coalition will be on the strength of the BJP, unlike the UF where a 42-member party headed the government. Only the BJP or the Congress have a national standing and can offer a government. People want a government and I agree with the writer who expressed recently that even communal governance is better than secular non-governance.

What about the doubts constantly being raised about the BJP's secular credentials?

The Muslims are sought to be alienated from the BJP by the secular press. But this problem is melting. Nobody can today tell Muslims, 'we will protect you from the BJP'. If parties are really secular, why don't they unite and fight the BJP? There are now four parties fighting separately on the secular plank -- the Congress, the UF, the Left and the Jan Morcha; whose brand of secularism is the correct one?

The BJP does not seek to favour the Hindus. It only wants equal rights for all religious groups and is against appeasement of the minorities. The BJP has been honest in proclaiming this character of the party. In public life, it is not possible to profess a wrong thing, and what you profess in politics always emerges as the true picture. If the BJP professes to treat Hindu and Muslim alike in a large country like ours, no other hidden programme is possible for the party.

The BJP has whittled down its stand on Ayodhya.

Ayodhya cannot be wished away. It is an issue and I think the BJP is being dishonest when it says it is not an issue. In fact, Harkishan Singh Surjeet has been far more honest than them.

Only religious people can understand religious feelings. A religious Hindu can understand a religious Muslim and vice-versa. The secularists cannot be agents in solving such problems.

What direction would economic liberalisation take if the BJP comes to power?

The liberalisation process during the last few years has been a sham. It has been unplanned, undirected. Little has been thought about its impact on society, economy, polity. We dropped Gandhi-ism to embrace socialism and then spurned that in favour of capitalism -- all without any debate. At least 100,000 people -- businessmen, public representatives, opinion makers, professionals, and commoners -- should be involved. The government is now talking of a law on derivatives when 90 per cent of the bank officials and financial professionals themselves don't know anything about it! When two-thirds of the people don't know what a cheque is! And they call themselves reformers!

The finance minister has said he is not worried about who owns industry (foreigners or Indians) here so long as employment and goods are available. Will this (attitude) not spill over tomorrow into our family life too?

What we need is a reform of the process as also of the reformers. Why are Malaysia and South Korea now going swadeshi? We have always been stressing on this (swadeshi).

Your anti-Enron agitation under the banner of the Swadeshi Jagran Manch seems to have fizzled out?

There was no awareness earlier about the pitfalls of globalisation of power projects. The Swadeshi Jagran Manch was able to focus on preventing fraud in Power Purchase Agreements. We found that the bureaucracy was dishonest in the Enron case -- they were favouring Enron and they let down the government.

But the Manch has established that acquisition of knowledge comes before liberalisation. The Enron costs should have been brought down more through change of fuel.

Far from scrapping Enron, the government has signed an agreement for doubling the capacity (in two phases)!

Our agitation is not clogged to one project. We have highlighted the Enron case as an illustration of bad globalisation.

In Enron, the BJP failed the swadeshi cause.

So, what is the scope of your swadeshi movement? Will the BJP take to it wholeheatedly if it comes to power?

We are ready for a long campaign. We look at a stretch of 25 years whereas the BJP looks at five years a time. The Jagran Manch is independent of the BJP.

Already the Indian industry has begun to come round to our arguments in favour of swadeshi, and people who were supporting globalisation earlier on are now feeling the heat and are crying out for a level playing field. Clearly, so soon after the liberalisation process began, our views are gaining ground. A couple of years back, a leading industrialist had scoffed, 'when you come to power, only buffalos will walk the streets!'

EARLIER INTERVIEW/ CHAT:

Fanaticism and Hinduism cannot go together'
Hindu-Muslim Bhai Bhai!