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The Rediff Interview/K Karunakaran

'The PM is not bold enough to meet any challenge, he is cracking under pressure'

K Karunakaran, former chief minister of Kerala and member of Parliament from the Thiruvananthapuram constituency, is always surrounded by sycophantic followers who revere him -- rather unlike the case with his rival, A K Antony. He is one the few Congress leaders who is said to be close to 10 Janpath, and Shobha Warrier managed to pin him down when he was in Thiruvananthapuram recently for a day. An excerpt from his interview:

The United Democratic Front lost the Ernakulam seat to the Left Democratic Front. What is the reason for this setback, that too so soon after the Lok Sabha elections in which your front had won more seats than the LDF?

The government misused its position as the ruling party beyond any limit.

You mean there was a lot of rigging?

Of course, rigging was there. Officials were openly supporting them.

But is that the only reason?

It is not the only reason. There were a lot of shortcomings from our side too. We should have prepared ourselves well.

In Kerala, people have always been known to alternate between the UDF and the LDF, and have never given the government a second chance. Does this not mean people are frustrated with both the fronts?

I don't think so. When the UDF was in power, we never misused power. We never used the power we had as the ruling party to win elections. That is why whenever the UDF is in power, their candidates win the bye-elections.

I was not talking about bye-elections. In the assembly elections the ruling party is always voted out.

Yes, I also feel that people are not happy with the way we are functioning. At least now we should take care of that shortcoming. In the last few years, many elections have taken place. So, now people do not take as much interest in elections as they used to.

Let me ask you about the recently conducted nuclear tests. When the whole world is trying to attain peace, was it right on the part of India to conduct nuclear tests and get isolated? Was it necessary?

According to me, the government could not give a correct explanation for the timing of the test. I do not understand the reason for this provocation. If it is to prove our capability, we proved it 24 years back. What is the need to go for a test now?

Do you see any political reason for this test? Do you think it was to divert the attention of the people from the way Jayalalitha was making the government dance?

Everybody feels so. We also cannot think otherwise. One thing is certain, this government is not stable. The PM is not bold enough to meet any challenge. He is cracking under pressure.

Now that Pakistan also has conducted nuclear tests, will it lead to an arms race in the region?

That (arms race) will go against all the countries. That will be the end of peace in the region. Can any country escape a nuclear war? The truth is, no country can go for a nuclear war. That will be the end of the world. We had always been for peace. We wanted disarmament. When the country is basically for disarmament, what is our justification in spending more money for nuclear weapons, that too a country which cannot even meet the primary needs of the people? See, we still cannot provide drinking water to all the Indians.

What are your plans now?

We will expose the government. We will make the people understand the gravity of the situation, the danger they are facing, and prepare them for a change. Let the people pressurise the parties to make a change. One thing is clear, if this government continues with these policies, the future of the country is bleak.

It was the Congress government under P V Narasimha Rao which liberalised the economy, while the BJP's own Budget has been described as an anti-reform Budget. As a senior Congressman, what is your opinion?

This is not the actual or the real Budget. There is something artificial about it. The economy of all countries depends on investment. Whether it is domestic or foreign, investment is very, very essential. So, if we want economic growth, we must create an atmosphere attractive for investment. But this Budget does not provide anything to attract investment. And whatever assistance we are getting now is going to be stopped because of the sanctions.

For example, we in Kerala are going to be the worse suffers as far as power and drinking water are concerned. We had a very ambitious plan for drinking water with the help of Japan. After the sanctions, what will happen now? These sanctions will definitely affect our economy.

How much time do you give to the Vajpayee government?

If this kind of chaos and confusion continue, it will not last long. I cannot exactly pinpoint the time but it will not last long.

Till recently, the Congress did not have any opposition as such. Now do you see the BJP emerging as an alternative to the Congress?

The Congress is the only alternative. The Congress is the only secular force in the country.

What according to you are the reasons for the BJP, a party labelled as communal, to get these many seats? Do you feel a large number of Hindus in India turned to the BJP because they felt the Congress was pampering the minorities in the name of secularism? Is it not true that you used them as vote banks?

That is not true. When we say we are secular, we have the fundamental responsibility to see that the interests of minorities are protected. Unless there is friendly relations between various communities, you cannot expect peace in the country. If peace is not there, there will not be secularism also.

Is the Congress suffering from a scarcity in leadership? It seems you cannot think beyond the Nehru family.

No. In the last several decades, the contribution of the (Nehru) family starting from Motilal Nehru is incomparable. Their contribution is higher as far as the freedom movement was concerned.

More than Mahatma Gandhi's?

Mahatma Gandhi, of course was different. You know, the Nehru family is the creation of Gandhiji. Nobody can be above Bapu. But the contributions by Panditji, then Indira Gandhi, then Rajiv Gandhi.... So, you can see what I am talking about. In 1977, when Indiraji was defeated, what was the fate of the country? The government was under a very able leadership and it had outstanding personalities in public life in the government. But that did not last long. Not only did it not last, the degeneration started then, in all aspects.

So, that is why the Congress prefers only someone from the family....

There is no parallel to their contribution to the country. That is one family which maintained and followed the basic principles of India and secularism.

But you are falling back on a person who was not interested in politics and who is not an Indian by birth... Do you think the people of India will accept your choice?

What do you mean by 'not an Indian by birth'?

Well, she is an Italian by birth.

Can you say Advani is an Indian by birth?

Yes. Because that was the India then. But she is from another country.

Okay, you are talking about the country. Tell me what is the custom followed by Indians? You accept anyone who comes and settles down in India. No. Not only that. If one lady is married to a family, she becomes a part of that family.

That is the north Indian custom. We in Kerala follow the matrilineal system. But she was not interested in politics. Why did you drag her into it?

That is a different matter. Necessity compels certain people to come to politics. Only someone from that family can bring all people together.

You mean, all Congressmen?

Okay, all Congressmen together. According to me, others also. So, their leadership will be more effective.

So, the Congress is suffering from lack of good leadership unlike other parities.

I will give you an example. The tubelight is very bright in a small, dark room. But when sunlight is there, the tubelight will not shine. Leaders are there in other parties too but they do not have such an outstanding leader. This family has had such outstanding personalities always.

Some time back, we saw her talking to the media. When somebody asked her whether the Indian Constitution has to be rewritten, she said, ask Karunakaranji. Was she not aware of all that?

It is not that she is not aware. It was because I am an old Congressman that she said that.

Does she know India and what is happening here?

I must tell you she is thorough.

Is she a democratic person?

She is very much a democratic person. She is a very mature person. I have been saying throughout that she should come into active politics. She is the only answer to the chair. Now it has come true.

If an election comes, will you project Sonia Gandhi as your prime ministerial candidate or somebody else? Will she remain as the party head and somebody else will be the prime minister?

Even without us projecting her, people will accept only her as the prime minister.

But will she accept the post?

She will accept.

Will she be able to rule a big and diverse country like India?

Much better than any of the prime ministers we had recently.

Does she understand India?

Much more than an Indian. She is part of the family, which has done so much for India. She takes a lot of personal interest to understand India. She doesn't mind asking a knowledgeable person also.

Does she know India better than Rajiv Gandhi?

To a certain extent, yes. I told you she is thorough. Rajivji was very intelligent but very young then. So, he wanted to do everything fast, he expected the results too fast.

Now that you talked about speed, let me ask you one thing. The speed of your vehicle is quite famous in Kerala. Why do you go so fast? Do you love speed?

I like (speed). See, when an idea strikes you, you should do it immediately, you should implement it without any delay. That's my policy. I don't like delaying things.

Is that the reason why your car always goes very fast?

( laughs) That is not the reason. I like speed.

You have had quite a few accidents too, but always escaped miraculously. Recently on your way to the Guruvayoor temple also, you had an accident. Do you attribute your escapes to your faith in Lord Guruvayoorappan?

I certainly believe that Lord Guruvayoorappan can save everybody from every crisis.

The Rediff Interviews