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December 3, 1998
SPECIALS
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'The only way to fight fundamentalists is by fundamentalism'
How Readers responded to Varsha Bhosle's earlier column
Date sent: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 14:47:16 -0800 (PST) I recently discovered Rediff and its thought-provoking articles. I particularly liked Pritish Nandy's recent article on the 'Mafia vs the MNCs.' Some articles are, however, rather superficial, and Varsha Bhosle's 'Present Imperfect' is one such. She writes about the "overextending of concessions" to minorities. Is there a data-based study on this assertion that one could look into? To me it appeared to be based just on her superficial observations. A thorough study of the actual monetary value of concessions that the Indian government gives out in all forms to different communities would be worthwhile. It will help establish whether there is real substance to her assertion. Do these 'concessions' amount to unfair advantages to the minorities? Or, do they constitute just appeasement that distracts from what really matters -- economic concessions? A careful study is necessary to look into all the funds spent exclusively in support of each community. Take a minor item like pilgrimage, which in my opinion is inconsequential in the big picture. What is the extent of government support to pilgrimages to Mecca, how many people are afforded the concessions, and are there any hidden benefits to India? How does this compare with government spending in improving facilities and transportation, and laying down rail-tracks, to ease travel of pilgrims of the majority community? Coming to more substantial numbers, what is the value of concessions given by the government to the majority community in the form of quotas and affirmative action to its economically/socially disadvantaged sections? Are the same benefits extended to weaker sections of minority communities? How do these stack against all the concessions minorities get (including state funding for pilgrimage trips)? Economic concessions to communities are what ultimately matter. I mention just a couple of items that came to my mind. But hard numbers on these and others would help substantiate or disprove charges of unfair concessions. This is a suitable topic for research, and Ms Bhosle's "insight" is no substitute for a data-based analysis.
A Malik
Date sent: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 15:09:05, -0500 Varsha brings to me a sort of freshness of mind, totally uninhibited by any bias. I admire her ability to see Indians as equals and her courage to point out the attempts to divide people for purely political expediency. I want her to write about Hinduism, not as a religion (wrongly labelled), but as developmental science of life -- to bring about an age of enlightenment with all its complex and collective manifestation. I believe thinkers like Varsha could still salvage from the carnage of Indian politics, and encourage a new mindset to enable people to live in the present moment awareness in the time-space-continuum as we step into the new millennium. As sage Adi Shankara said: "I use memories, but don't allow memories to use me." What a sense of true freedom that allows humans to live in an universe of pure potentialities with its underlying unity and connectivity. Writers like Varsha could help create a conducive environment where it will be easy to banish bigotry or temptations offered by religion, caste and creed denominations, and foster equality in life's opportunities for all the citizens of India. God bless.
V Muthuswami
Date sent: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 00:18:49 EST I grew up in a much better time in India. I felt encouraged by a secular Congress. It is unfortunate that the ominous parties of our time -- RSS, Jan Sangh, Shiv Sena are now leading the country to DOOM!!!
Date sent: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 06:49:21 +0530 It is a very interesting column. It has so many original thoughts which are very thought provoking. They are very true. We have really destroyed the cohesiveness of the Indian nation by our narrow visions and immediate self gains. I wonder if we can ever regain this loss. Major R S Bhatnagar (retd)
Date sent: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 19:20:14 -0500 There was some criticism by Muslims of Varsha, and it seems there is a great communication gap between Hindus and Muslim. One point, someone compared Vande Mataram to Allah-oh-Akbar (see Yasir mail). He who made this comparison, claims not to be an ignorant Muslim. As far as I know, no Hindu thinks of that as a prayer. I being a Hindu have never prayed using Vande Mataram. Instead Vande Mataram was supported by Mahatma Gandhi, and was supposed to be sung by many other Muslim leaders (some say Jinnah too, though I cannot verify these). If you oppose Vande Mataram and at the same time call yourself a liberal Muslim (may be because of ignorance), I cannot think but you are a fundamentalist and the only way to fight fundamentalists is by fundamentalism (I can't be a Gandhi). Opposing Saraswati Vandana is a different thing. But all the pseudo-secular parties are out there to woo the minority and they don't seem to make this distinction. Regarding doubting the loyalty of Muslims, I think it is a bad thing and should be stopped in some manner. It doesn't do good to anyone, specially when we have to live together. But don't blame Varsha for it. The problem is the Muslims' soft corner for Pakistan and then some Indian Muslims (I would like to think they are in a minority) support Pakistan as we can clearly see in cricket matches. Hindu fanatics attack a painter for painting nude pictures of Saraswati. Many so-called secular people criticised it. Violence erupts in Hyderabad for some criticism, Muslim fanatics are not criticised for being fundamentalist. Why not? I will criticise both of them or neither. There were many mosques destroyed by Muslim rulers. If they offered any back to Hindus we should be made aware of it. Now think of Ram as Jesus Christ. If someone says this mosque was built in place of the birthplace of Jesus Christ (one can surely not prove that). Doesn't it seem nice to say the place is more important for Christians than for the Muslims? All Christians will be very mean to name a place as birthplace if they don't think so. Only evidence is in Ayodhya, where Ram was supposed to be born? It is the incapability (or willingness) of learned Muslims to appreciate this genuine concerns which raises support for Hindu fundamentalists. Just for your information, a few of my good friends are Muslim and I believe people of all religions are good (even of Pakistan). Vajpayee when addressing Muslims talked about how he is trying to improve relations with Pakistan and not Bangladesh or Iran. Support for Muslims of countries other than Pakistan will help Indian Muslims, and Hindus too. Hope Yasir, you have read this. Vijay
Date sent: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 22:51:41 EST This is the first time I have visited your web site and stumbled upon Ms Bhosle's article -- Case against Secularism? The article is full of pointless and disorganised psycho babble, that made any convincing argument supporting her point of view -- supporting hatred. She labours on this issue without any direction or focus with some extraneous examples chosen selectively. It is impossible to escape the impression that she lacks minimal understanding of the of issues that she is so inclined to draw conclusions from. She further confuses herself and the issue by comparing minority issues in America with Indian Muslims. She draws absurd parallels. Also, the article exposes her ignorance of history, evolution of slavery and institutionalised racism in America. OJ's trail only confirmed the existence of the wide racial chasm in America and had nothing to do with secularism and communalism. It is sad to note that she lacks basic understanding of these terms. If she had paid any attention to history, she would have been curious to explore why the same type of outrageous polarisation among white folks for justice did not occur when all white jurors routinely absolved white criminals committing most atrocious racially motivated lynchings. Lest she should not forget her privileges and existence in US stem from the very idea of secularism. One wonders her internal mental process to expose her ignorance in print. In reference to Zwick, does she recognise his vested economic interests? Finally, Ms Bhosle's ideas on secularism are regressive and hate has no place in this modern world. In future, I hope you will make room for a more informed commentator. Let Ms Bholse find some other cyber space to spew her hatred. Keep up your good work.
Ravi K Kalla
Date sent: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 16:47:40 It is good to see enlightening articles from Varsha Bhosle. She really tries to give as much in-depth coverage to the topic that she discusses as possible. Here is a collection of articles with a title "The Genesis of Jana Gana Mana." W B Yeats was a great Irish poet. He was a friend of Tagore's, and a great admirer of his works. He wrote a beautiful introduction to Tagore's Gitanjali. Once an Indian disciple of Tagore met Yeats. In a letter to Lady Gregory in America, Yeats mentioned that he had told him that Sarojini Naidu's brother was unhappy that Tagore wrote a poem welcoming King George V. He also narrated to her an appetising story he had from the disciple warning her that it was strictly off the record. It concerns the circumstances in which Jana Gana Mana was composed: "The National Congress people asked Tagore for a poem of welcome. He tried to write it, but could not. He got up very early in the morning and wrote a very beautiful poem, not one of his best, but still beautiful. When he came down, he said to one of us, 'Here is a poem which I have written. It is addressed to God, but give it to Congress people. It will please them. They will think it is addressed to the King.' All Tagore's own followers knew it meant God, but others did not." (The Indian Express) The Calcutta Congress session began on December 26, 1911. The proceedings on the first day began with Vande Mataram. The second day was entirely devoted to things connected with the welcoming of King George V, and this day the song Jana Gana Mana was sung. Badshah Hamara was sung. On the third day Saraladevi sang her own composition Namo Hindustan. The newspapers reports had the following comments on Jana Gana Mana: "The Bengali poet Babu Rabindranath Tagore sang a song composed by him specially to welcome the Emperor." ( The Statesman, December 28, 1911) "The proceedings began with the singing by Babu Rabindranath Tagore of a song specially composed by him in honour of the Emperor." (Englishman, December 28). "When the proceedings of the Indian National Congress began on Wednesday 27th December 1911, a Bengali song in welcome of the Emperor was sung. A resolution welcoming the Emperor and Empress was also adopted unanimously." (Indian, Dec. 29, 1911) In the eyes of many leaders of the day, loyalty to the nation and loyalty to the Emperor were identical. King George V had proclaimed on December 12 the annulment of the partition of Bengal. There was therefore nothing unnatural or extraordinary in a Bengali poet, Rabindranath Tagore, composing or singing a song in praise of the Emperor out of gratitude. But differences of opinion were bound to arise when the question of its adoption as the national anthem came up. The choice of a national anthem should undoubt Rabindranath Tagore did not contradict newspaper reports which characterised Jana Gana Mana as a song composed in honour of King George V. Gradually the tide of nationalism began to affect the old values. Loyalty to the country and loyalty to the King became irreconcilable. Honour, devotion and love of the country not only ceased to co-exist with honour, devotion and love of King Emperor, but mutually antagonistic. Also the British government which was charging people with sedition for singing Vande Mataram extended high regard to Jana Gana Mana. It was sung in government schools, and in scout groups which fostered loyalty to the British throne. At the time the British quit India, a fighter plane was presented by England to India, and on this occasion Jana Gana Mana was sung. The British also praised the song. Ram Malladi
Date sent: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 09:44:51 -0700 So what, if some people get offended. Varsha Bhosle should never stop writing her commentaries!
Date sent: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 14:05:40 +1300 Good work. Keep it up. At last you have a journalist who can talk straight without beating around the bush. You should see Indian Muslims in a foreign country, how soon they get close to Pakistanis and maintain distance with Indians (Hindus). This is true except for Bohri Muslims. Indian Muslims even refuse to attend Indian Independence Day and enthusiastically participate in Pakistani Independence Day celebrations. It is also ironic that the Muslims who migrated from India during Partition are rather more forthcoming in establishing contact with Indians. Perhaps Indian Muslims can learn from the experiences of their brethren who deserted their homeland. Vande Mataram.
K Malani
Date sent: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 21:52:57 -0500 Please stop Varsha Bhosle from writing rubbish on Rediff.
Date sent: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 18:24:26 +0000 Oh yes. I really believe that you are nuts even if it makes me crazy.
Date sent: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 10:59:02 -0500 (EST) In this article, V Bhosle seems to be criticising the so-called pseudo-secularists' opposition to some moves (pertaining to India's Muslims) of the RSS and company. First, without giving any real compelling reasons or citing evidence, she asserts that what Dhondy and Zwick showed was not incorrect, and that the people who criticised them were unreasonable in doing so, that they were doing so because of some sort of collective-guilt trip or something like that. Then she goes on to imply that those who criticise the RSS and company for doing what they are doing with respect to the minorities must also be doing so for similar reasons and hence wrong. Impressive logic, except that no real case has been made; some assertions have been made on the basis of warped arguments that will not endure even a mildly rigorous examination. Of course there are opportunists like Mulayam and company who try to exploit the minorities by doing what they do, but that doesn't imply that the so-called pseudo-secularists are wrong in opposing the government's moves and motives in recent events. The basic thrust of V Bhosle's argument is that the Muslim minorities are getting many benefits and special treatments that the majority community doesn't. Consider the following two counter-arguments: Firstly, if you view the Muslim community in India as a whole, an overwhelming majority of them are poor, and educationally, financially, and socially backward. To some extent, I think they are themselves responsible for their backwardness (as a community), but my point is that if that community is indeed reaping the benefits of special treatment for so many decades, how come their situation has not improved and perhaps only worsened? It would be nice if V Bhosle can provide some reliable statistical data. Secondly, so what if some special treatment is meted out to minorities? If you view Muslim-Indian culture as a culture largely distinct from Hindu culture and accept the premise that efforts should be made to preserve all cultures (because each culture represents a unique collective wisdom gathered over many years), then it is natural to grant special treatments to minorities: The majority, just by virtue of being the majority, will manage to preserve and propagate its culture; the minorities need a little help in doing so. I believe that the basic idea of real Hinduism (as opposed to "Hindutva", its pseudo-version) calls for preservation of different cultures and a healthy interaction among them. The so-called "pesudo-secularists" should use some new terminology while addressing the RSS and its cronies: "Hindutva" is pseudo-Hinduism and "Hindutva-vaadis" are "pseudo-Hindus." As for V Bhosle, unless she can provide rigorous arguments to support her assertions, let her be deemed a quack of an intellectual.
Date sent: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:37:16 +0530 Once again our secularists are stripped off in public. Whatever you have told is exactly right. Why Muslims should enjoy the facilities what we (Hindus) don't have? We assured them that we will give equal rights, not anything more than that. Why should we sponsor their Haj? Why should we? All these problems are because of our secularists, they have given them these facilities. Because secularists supports such silly things, that's why Muslims raise their voice. But this will not run for a long time, even Hindus are aware how they are treated in their own country. They will definitely react. I have kept track of the responses to your articles. There are hate mails, but very negligible as opposed to the love mails you get. That itself shows that a majority of Indians are with you. Don't be afraid to tell the truth, the whole world knows that Islam has been very aggressive. One of the persons who responded to your previous article (Mr Mazheruddin Aliahmed) says about the Babri Masjid demolition -- he says Muslims have put up with such activities in India. I just want to tell him that still they retaliate. On every December 6 you can expect some riots, it's true. He claims Islam is a universal religion, but I consider it a universal threat. I have no doubt about that. You want evidence:
1. Pakistan is a Muslim country, you know how they are maintaining peace
there. Today I read Russia has expelled six Pakistanis for spreading communal
tension in the name of religion.
Islam cannot bear or coexists with other religions. Khushwant Singh has clearly said "India will remain a secular country till Hindus are in majority, once Muslims cross 40 per cent of the population, it will become an Islamic country." It's a fact, can anybody show me one, at least one secular country where Muslims are in majority. I really feel Islam is a threat rather than a religion.
Date sent: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 11:06:49 +0530 Varsha Bhosle makes a connection, made a number of times by a number of people, in her own interesting way. She would have, of course, realised that without the Indian brand of secularism being a part of their ethos, political parties (whichever way they may swing), would be left without a credible platform (in the eyes of the Indian voter) on which to carry out their election campaigns. I think that in itself is their most credible excuse for doing what they do.
Date sent: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 01:28:03 GMT The writer tried to exploit her knowledge in this article by quoting and referring to all real life situations and tried to connect them to a situation in India. This is where she lost her ground. She tried connecting the present situation of pure Hindu fundamentalism with neutral facts. I agree with her about the Congress support to separatist movements. But this does not mean that fundamentalist groups come up with separatist ideas against the community, which was so poorly represented by the separatist groups. So this does not form the explanation for the turmoil caused by evoking unnecessary things to use it for political advantage, when India has many other problems to cope up with. I request Rediff to avoid articles such as this, which try to support the unethical and unnecessary fundamentalist attitudes of few fanatics and thus give credibility to them.
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